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Author Topic: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???  (Read 3523 times)

oliverhbailey

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Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« on: December 07, 2020, 08:34:35 pm »
Hello,
This is one of the most poorly maintained cross platform languages ever!

There seems to be no documentation for Free Vision, and the github examples are written in German. If you use corss platform tools, with fpcupdeluxe, it is almost completely impossible to build any examples outside the mainline code. For a compiler that offer so many features, it's lack of good current documentation makes it hardly worth supporting and these side projects that are mentioned in the Free Pascal Wiki, don't offer complete support.

Is Free Vision even supported within the Free Pacal world or is it the pet project of the German who hosts the github site?

What would be wrong with having all examples in English or removing non-english tools out of the main wiki.


marcov

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2020, 09:38:55 pm »
This is one of the most poorly maintained cross platform languages ever!

Probably due to the users that post low quality bug reports!

p.s. FPC is not hosted on github.

mercurhyo

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2020, 09:55:43 pm »
freevision isnt that much different from turbo vision
the only diff (i read it somewhere) is the palettes colors management in some few ways
So you can assume the manual under the link below is a good start/guide (I tested some concepts/examples)

they passed test like a charm

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/borland/Turbo_Vision_Version_2.0_Programming_Guide_1992.pdf
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 10:03:49 pm by mercurhyo »
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trev

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2020, 11:43:43 pm »
This is one of the most poorly maintained cross platform languages ever!

You only have yourself to blame if that is the case. You do realise that this is an open source project, right? What have you contributed other than unhelpful criticism?

Quote
What would be wrong with having all examples in English or removing non-english tools out of the main wiki.

Not everyone speaks/writes English perhaps?
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winni

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2020, 01:05:49 am »
[
Not everyone speaks/writes English perhaps?

Yes. What about the poor Americans?
Some days ago there was an American, who howled that everything is english.

Winni


PascalDragon

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2020, 09:49:38 am »
Is Free Vision even supported within the Free Pacal world or is it the pet project of the German who hosts the github site?

Free Vision is part of Free Pascal, however with the advent of tools like Lazarus and it's LCL the main effort is spent their. The only real user of Free Vision is FPC's textmode IDE and is probably the best example of using Free Vision.

What would be wrong with having all examples in English or removing non-english tools out of the main wiki.

Feel free to translate the examples. This is an open source project after all.

MarkMLl

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2020, 11:02:07 am »
Free Vision is part of Free Pascal, however with the advent of tools like Lazarus and it's LCL the main effort is spent their. The only real user of Free Vision is FPC's textmode IDE and is probably the best example of using Free Vision.

I've used it a little bit without substantial problems. After all, it's written in Pascal, not English.

MarkMLl
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Thaddy

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2020, 01:18:39 pm »
The testapp.pas in the fpc examples directory is in english. You may have to download that if you checked out and built from source. In the distribution the examples should be installed. And yes, FPC is not officially on github, as Marco wrote.

Testapp covers all the basics. And as already stated, you can use most Turbo Vision examples that do not use assembler.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 01:22:28 pm by Thaddy »

oliverhbailey

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2020, 11:28:23 pm »
Very interesting replies..

First, the excuse "it's an open source project" seems a little lame. Most open source projects lack good documentation because developer's either can't, or don't like to write. This tool is an excellent compiler and cross-development tool, but there is a lot of old information that needs to be removed and is no longer applicable to current or recent, prior versions.

Successful open source projects have well written documentation, and keep it updated. Some users are interested in using the tool, not writing it. Try buying a Jeep kit, yes an unassembled Jeep. They were crated and sold until the 1970's when they were all sold out. Would you rather drive or build your car.

I'm not into listening to you BS, an American English acronym, after 45 years of development so you're barking up the wrong tree boys.

I did download the TV manual. The current example crashes compiled with FPC 3.2.0 and Lazarus 2.10 due to a memory management problem. No, I'm not fixing it!!

And thank you for your responses, it gives great insight into why a lot of old, out of date information is posted. You're too busy defending yourselves. If you can't be helpful, STFU. You can look that one up on your own, it is well documented.

Cheers!

mercurhyo

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2020, 11:57:11 pm »
Very interesting replies..


And thank you for your responses, it gives great insight into why a lot of old, out of date information is posted. You're too busy defending yourselves. If you can't be helpful, STFU. You can look that one up on your own, it is well documented.

Cheers!

hmm just bougthened (LOL) sum popcorn... i'm gona watch the rednack storm growing  :D

buy (LOLagayan) tha way, F V is a translation from T V 2.0 from borland C++ to Pascal, I readead sumwhere borland released their sources few years ago and then changed their maind :D SO , at this time, someone lucky catchated the sources and transposed them to FPK, that is why behavyour is close  :P

about memories issueations ... Compile in {$mode TP} should tripass ze praublemation off poointerz

https://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/user/userse33.html

cheaarrrrssss boobydooowyyyy

Et autrement, je ne mange pas tous les fromages ....
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 12:01:13 am by mercurhyo »
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Zath

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2020, 12:30:56 am »
Very interesting replies..

First, the excuse "it's an open source project" seems a little lame. Most open source projects lack good documentation because developer's either can't, or don't like to write. This tool is an excellent compiler and cross-development tool, but there is a lot of old information that needs to be removed and is no longer applicable to current or recent, prior versions.

Successful open source projects have well written documentation, and keep it updated. Some users are interested in using the tool, not writing it. Try buying a Jeep kit, yes an unassembled Jeep. They were crated and sold until the 1970's when they were all sold out. Would you rather drive or build your car.

I'm not into listening to you BS, an American English acronym, after 45 years of development so you're barking up the wrong tree boys.

I did download the TV manual. The current example crashes compiled with FPC 3.2.0 and Lazarus 2.10 due to a memory management problem. No, I'm not fixing it!!

And thank you for your responses, it gives great insight into why a lot of old, out of date information is posted. You're too busy defending yourselves. If you can't be helpful, STFU. You can look that one up on your own, it is well documented.

Cheers!

What a delightful soul you are. You start a thread criticising something and complaining about people not updating it or doing some sort of mega wiki, then delight in telling us you found an issue but categorically won't fix it. Perhaps if "you" can't be helpful....


PascalDragon

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2020, 09:27:07 am »
First, the excuse "it's an open source project" seems a little lame. Most open source projects lack good documentation because developer's either can't, or don't like to write. This tool is an excellent compiler and cross-development tool, but there is a lot of old information that needs to be removed and is no longer applicable to current or recent, prior versions.

This being an open source project also means that we're working on this on our own, free time. There is no big company backing this like there is for e.g. LLVM. So if something isn't documented well enough it's because no one had the time and/or interest to do so.

Successful open source projects have well written documentation, and keep it updated. Some users are interested in using the tool, not writing it. Try buying a Jeep kit, yes an unassembled Jeep. They were crated and sold until the 1970's when they were all sold out. Would you rather drive or build your car.

The documentation for the language, the usage of the compiler and quite some of especially the core units is constantly kept up to date. We however have quite an amount of packaged units that we distribute and the main devs can't provide their time to document these. That's why community support for such thing is needed.


MarkMLl

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Re: Is there any simple ENGLISH examples for Free Vision???
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2020, 09:42:18 am »
I'm going out on a limb here.

First, the excuse "it's an open source project" seems a little lame. Most open source projects lack good documentation because developer's either can't, or don't like to write. This tool is an excellent compiler and cross-development tool, but there is a lot of old information that needs to be removed and is no longer applicable to current or recent, prior versions.

I think that's fair. Over-reliance on wikis is a particular problem, because (a) the person who wrote an article might not in fact know what he's talking about and (b) there's no mechanism that ensures that information gets reviewed on a regular basis and older stuff at the very least marked as being problematic.

There's also the complementary problem that the FPC documentation conspicuously omits notes of when RTL functions etc. were introduced into the language.

Quote
Successful open source projects have well written documentation, and keep it updated. Some users are interested in using the tool, not writing it. Try buying a Jeep kit, yes an unassembled Jeep. They were crated and sold until the 1970's when they were all sold out. Would you rather drive or build your car.

By that metric there are very few successful open source projects, or at least very few that are maintainable by anybody other than the original authors.

I'd suggest that comparison of just about anything with one of the classic jeeps is unfair, since design, documentation and production were underwritten by government resources.

Quote
I'm not into listening to you BS, an American English acronym, after 45 years of development so you're barking up the wrong tree boys.

Reminding people of just how well qualified you are (and, hypothetically, that you're a count and KCMG) is never a profitable way to argue. If you're so good then find a way of being useful, or at least pleasant.

Quote
I did download the TV manual. The current example crashes compiled with FPC 3.2.0 and Lazarus 2.10 due to a memory management problem. No, I'm not fixing it!!

In that case kindly raise a bug report for it, or at least tell us here in adequate detail what the problem is so that somebody who understands the innards can look at it.

To summarise, you make what are IMHO some good points. But I suggest that a bit more of the "H" is in order.

MarkMLl
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Pet hate: people who boast about the size and sophistication of their computer.
GitHub repositories: https://github.com/MarkMLl?tab=repositories

 

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