Recent

Author Topic: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl  (Read 10420 times)

Fred vS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1983
    • StrumPract is the musicians best friend
Re: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl
« Reply #150 on: October 03, 2020, 01:01:51 pm »
Quote
can we hold back from further Thaddy-bashing, and perhaps be a bit forgiving.

Yes, of course forgiving is a must.
But to be true, forgiveness requires some rules.

Thaddy knows perfectly Pascal, he is a reference for many things and his skill is highest.

But sometime his comments are very hurtful and not always true.
And in these cases, admitting the mistake and apologizing for it helps a lot to forgive.

All that said, I like you Thaddy (even if sometime I want to bite you) and please continue to contribute (respectfully).

Fre;D




I use Lazarus 2.0.6 32/64 and FPC 3.2.0 32/64 on Debian 10.2 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64 and Mac OS X Snow Leopard 32.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt, Carbon.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

twolivesbehindschedule

  • New member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl
« Reply #151 on: October 03, 2020, 05:04:23 pm »
If a person claims not to want to read the documentation, so I'm one of the people he sees as "his" documentation.
To put it another way, he takes me - in a certain way - for an idiot, an owed servant.

For my part, I do give info when I have it and see someone else seeking for it, especially when that info have been given to me freely by someone else before... unless someone asking you to write for him a whole program. I suggest not came hard with common knowledge that someone else lack

Learn to separate common knowledge from your own intellectual property and give the former freely fast and without second thought. You help your own self that way too

EDIT

Dishing out personal insults to someone who does not understand that will only do harm.

Do you honestly think that OP will go off and say "Wow, Thaddy said I am an idiot, I had better improve my self" ?  Instead, he will go off and tell anyone who asks that the FPC people are rude, abusive and refuse to help anyone. Thanks !

I would't do that, thick skin is hard to feel abused.
My comment is more helpful than harmful,  I only want to point what you are competing with, not to send people there.

And perhaps I must mention that microsoft picks up all your code from VS for research and debugging purposes, and the only assurance that the user have is that the top on their field and the most well paid programmers in the world will not lay their eyes on someone's code... For some this is good enough for others it's not.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 06:42:52 pm by twolivesbehindschedule »

devEric69

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
Re: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl
« Reply #152 on: October 03, 2020, 08:06:04 pm »
Quote
Before this thread is derailed entirely [snip]

Indeed: seriously, has anyone heard from the person who opened this thread: he is still not satisfied with these answers ^^ ?


« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 08:33:44 pm by devEric69 »
use: Linux 64 bits (Ubuntu 20.04 LTS).
Lazarus version: 2.0.4 (svn revision: 62502M) compiled with fpc 3.0.4 - fpDebug \ Dwarf3.

simone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
Re: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl
« Reply #153 on: November 05, 2020, 08:09:05 pm »
While I've never trusted Tiobe, I'm glad to see that Delphi/Object Pascal is again in the top 20 this month.
Microsoft Windows 10 64 bit - Lazarus 2.0.10

lucamar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3240
Re: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl
« Reply #154 on: November 05, 2020, 08:54:22 pm »
While I've never trusted Tiobe, I'm glad to see that Delphi/Object Pascal is again in the top 20 this month.

That's not surprising; if you look at the historic you'll see that it varies somewhat wildly, even from month to month. TIOBE's measuring (at least on some languages) doesn't really reflect the real world. You have but to see the swings that SQL traverse: nothing to do with how widely SQL is really used :-\

One has to take TIOBE with a pinch of salt and use it only to check tendencies, if anything at all.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 08:56:27 pm by lucamar »
Turbo Pascal 3 CP/M - Amstrad PCW 8256 (512 KB !!!) :P
Lazarus/FPC 2.0.8/3.0.4 & 2.0.10/3.2.0 - 32/64 bits on:
(K|L|X)Ubuntu 12..18, Windows XP, 7, 10 and various DOSes.

simone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
Re: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl
« Reply #155 on: November 05, 2020, 10:21:16 pm »
I agree with you. I pointed out to the CEO that this instability of the indices demonstrates the unreliability of the methodology, as in the real world the existence of large code bases makes changes very slow.

Moreover in the last few months I have seen hilarious results, eg Logo in the top 20. Frankly unrealistic (although I love this language, which I used when I was a child).
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 11:03:53 pm by simone »
Microsoft Windows 10 64 bit - Lazarus 2.0.10

440bx

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2048
Re: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl
« Reply #156 on: November 05, 2020, 11:28:37 pm »
...this instability of the indices demonstrates the unreliability of the methodology, as in the real world the existence of large code bases makes changes very slow.
That is likely the best indicator that their index isn't resting on a methodology with a solid scientific foundation.  It's not even clear what it is they are measuring (or attempting to measure).

If they wanted to measure the use of the Pascal language, they should take into account all the Pascal dialects, then possibly as additional information, show a breakdown for each dialect.  They should do that not just with Pascal but, for every programming language.


FPC v3.0.4 and Lazarus 1.8.2 on Windows 7 64bit.

dtoffe

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl
« Reply #157 on: November 06, 2020, 02:01:35 am »
That is likely the best indicator that their index isn't resting on a methodology with a solid scientific foundation.  It's not even clear what it is they are measuring (or attempting to measure).

From the TIOBE Index Wikipedia page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIOBE_index

Quote
The index covers searches in Google, Google Blogs, MSN, Yahoo!, Baidu, Wikipedia and YouTube. The index is updated once a month. The current information is free, but the long-term statistical data is for sale. The index authors have stated that it may be valuable when making various strategic decisions.

It doesn't need to be particularly scientific, it just need to be convincing enough to business people. If you are a coder or a mid-level tech manager, it will probably make your life miserable.

Daniel

dbannon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1214
    • tomboy-ng, a rewrite of the classic Tomboy
Re: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl
« Reply #158 on: November 06, 2020, 06:23:57 am »
And, as I have said before, the real problem is this Forum, its so good that we don't need to hit Google ....

Maybe we should set the Forum Search engine to use Google ?

Davo
Lazarus 2, Linux (and reluctantly Win10, OSX)
My Project - https://github.com/tomboy-notes/tomboy-ng

PascalDragon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2435
  • Compiler Developer
Re: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl
« Reply #159 on: November 06, 2020, 09:24:22 am »
Maybe we should set the Forum Search engine to use Google ?

That wouldn't help, because Tiobe looks for "pascal xxx" or "object pascal xxx" and things like that and if you have a specific forum search through Google you wouldn't need to add those terms when searching the forum.

simone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
Re: The Ranking of Free Pascal in the Tiobe-indexl
« Reply #160 on: November 06, 2020, 12:39:54 pm »
One of Tiobe's problems is that it relies on the wikipedia definitions. We all know that technically Delphi is the IDE and Object Pascal is the programming language, but it is also true that the term Delphi is also often used for the language. Delphi's wikipedia page is changed often. When wikipedia defines Delphi as an IDE, Tiobe no longer considers the term Delphi and the popularity of the language is consequently underestimated, as the name Object Pascal is less well known. In IT, I have many friends and colleagues who have heard of Delphi, but hardly anyone knows what Object Pascal is. Even on the web, many sites dedicated to Delphi or Lazarus do not use the term Object Pascal. Let me say that popularity of this programming language is also (but not limited to) a communication problem ...
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 12:41:59 pm by simone »
Microsoft Windows 10 64 bit - Lazarus 2.0.10

 

TinyPortal © 2005-2018