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Author Topic: Looking For Remote Programming Job  (Read 19846 times)

440bx

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2020, 09:54:23 pm »
But the amount of people chasing just job is also much smaller. Contrary to e.g. Java job where you have to compete with every new graduate.
That's true but, I'd say the odds are better for a top-5 languages programmer to get a good job than for a Pascal programmer.


It not being a top 5 language doesn't mean it is entirely nothing either. This is all too black and white.
I agree that there are some Pascal programming jobs out there but, there are very few compared to jobs for other more popular languages.  Even a cursory search reveals quite a few more jobs for COBOL and FORTRAN programmers than Pascal.

In a programmer's repertoire of skills, Pascal is just a "nice to have" skill, not a primary asset.
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trev

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2020, 01:52:49 am »
The FPC + Lazarus Wiki's In the News page has an interestng entry for September - Top 10 Programming Languages that Pay Handsome Salaries in 2020.

PascalDragon

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2020, 09:25:42 am »
I just outlined what can reverse that trend. We focus on a market where we can be successful.
You provided an outline but, it remains to be proven that what you've outlined can reverse that trend.  There are quite a few markets out there and, Delphi/Pascal has been losing ground in probably all of them.
I proved that it can. As I myself is a small business owner my anecdotal evidence in itself is sufficient proof. That does not mean that it will. And no Pascal has not been losing ground in all markets. Delphi has but not Pascal. The embedded system have several commercial compilers that are still in active development by the providers that develop them. C is of course the dominant language in the embedded sector but that is not news. Also I will contest your last statement. Pascal has been gaining ground. This as a result of hitting rock bottom. I cannot see all the reasons why the interest in Pascal is increasing. An increased focus on embedded systems is of course important where many of the popular languages simply will not be an alternative. DOS development has also increased and I can find more information about DOS programming in Turbo Pascal being posted and viewed on YouTube than what I can find information on FPC/Delphi. This of course is because of a growing interest vintage systems and emulation.

Good thing then that FPC's support for embedded development is improving more and more. Not only do we have AVR and ARM support, but trunk also contains support for RISC-V, Z80 and Xtensa (think ESP32/ESP8622). :D Of course the library support for embedded targets needs to be improved further, but there are projects like the Microcontroller Board Framework. :)

However in some cases I would argue against bindings and focus on functionality. For example the LCL is commonly bound to high level C API's. On Windows this means a thin layer above the Windows API which in many cases haven't changed much since Windows 3.X. However the Windows API is considered legacy by Microsoft who is promoting their Universal Windows Platform (UWP) Where Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) is the standard. WPF in turn renders using DirectX. As far as I know neither FPC nor Delphi has support for the WPF. Visual C++, C# and other DotNET languages are required for this as there are no native APU for WPF. To compete with C# we either need support of WPF which is a huge vendor lock in or we need something equivalent. However as it stands the LCL on Windows can hardly compete with the VCL that has many third party components that doesn't match anything for the LCL.

We need existing third party components for Delphi to support the LCL. That isn't something that can come from the Lazarus developers, because either the components are commercial ones or the devs are already busy with developing the LCL.

Outside of Windows the LCL uses a subset of Gtk and Qt Which are both in resent version based on an OpenGL Scene graph engine. The problem here is that we do not have a fully compatible and consistent API between platforms except for the Qt backend which can also be used on Windows. However when using Qt then C and C++ are both superior languages because they have full access to the Qt API. And same goes for Gtk.

Gtk is developed in C, so accessing from Pascal it is much less a problem than accessing Qt which requires an interfacing library. Qt however plays much more nicely with Windows than Gtk.

Why will I not just use Qt. Well Qt has gone partially closed source and when using embedded devices with direct frame-buffer rendering such as Raspberry Pi without X11 then I need to pay a licence fee for Qt and I do doubt that the current pascal bindings work with this.

The user facing side of the Qt API is very stable. And it's nearly completely irrelevant what the backend is (that's only important if one needs rather specific things). I wouldn't be surprised if the bindings would just work.

anyone

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2020, 10:11:17 pm »
Not sure if this is the right thread to post (I try not to start new topic whenever possible).

I am also looking to work from home as programmer. I understand that this forum has no resources for me to acquire domain knowledge such as point-of-sale system. Regrettably, people in my country often ask for business software solution instead of file/system utilities, etc.

The fact is, people in my online community claim that web and mobile app development are the trends, and less and less people use native Windows app nowadays (I do not know about other OSes, though). Is this true?

As a coder with console and desktop app since early teens, I am not familiar with web app, although I had came across Symbian, EPOC  and Windows CE mobile app development before (which became obsoleted). No, I am not familiar with iOS and Android either. So this is my disadvantage.

I plan to use Free Pascal to write a business software (perhaps P.O.S front-end and a simple back-end) using Free Vision. While I have interest to do my own hobby project (such as a basic Win32 compiler), but hobby will not be generating income for me.

In your opinion, how many business owners are still running console-based business software? Does Free Pascal support socket programming (in case the program needs Internet connectivity)?

 

valdir.marcos

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2020, 12:34:51 am »
Not sure if this is the right thread to post (I try not to start new topic whenever possible).
This is the correct section, but it would be a better idea to open a new thread when searching for a job.

Quote
I am also looking to work from home as programmer.
I understand that this forum has no resources for me to acquire domain knowledge such as point-of-sale system.
Regrettably, people in my country often ask for business software solution instead of file/system utilities, etc.
Not sure.
Many people here know about point-of-sale systems and you could ask and find where is the information you need for you country.

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The fact is, people in my online community claim that web and mobile app development are the trends, and less and less people use native Windows app nowadays (I do not know about other OSes, though). Is this true?
Unfortunately, yes, it is.
But it's not all bad news!
Workers 40+ are NOT the main target for mobile and web programming jobs for HR people, but they are very well accepted for desktop (banking, business, industrial and scientific) programming jobs.
Just consider that trend (web and mobile) jobs have more people interested and pay relatively less than desktop programming jobs. The latter simply pays more because it's neither easy to find experienced people nor cheap to train peolpe.

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As a coder with console and desktop app since early teens, I am not familiar with web app, although I had came across Symbian, EPOC  and Windows CE mobile app development before (which became obsoleted). No, I am not familiar with iOS and Android either. So this is my disadvantage.
Be positive. Nobody knows everything. Your knowledge should be important to some companies.
Beyond that, everything you learn is important to yourself and to your curriculum.
So, my advice is keep searching for a new job and keep learning. Expand you horizons.

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I plan to use Free Pascal to write a business software (perhaps P.O.S front-end and a simple back-end) using Free Vision.
Since you got here, why not learn Lazarus and also build some new GUI business software?  :)
Learning is fun!

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While I have interest to do my own hobby project (such as a basic Win32 compiler), but hobby will not be generating income for me.
Having a hobby is always something positive.
Employers also might have interest in your hobbies.

Quote
In your opinion, how many business owners are still running console-based business software?
I only know a very few of them here in Brazil. Usually those owners can't afford or don't want to buy new hardware or can't change old hardware (industry). It's really a niche!

Quote
Does Free Pascal support socket programming (in case the program needs Internet connectivity)?
Yes.

egsuh

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2020, 04:09:08 am »
I hope more web applications are developed in Delphi or Free Pascal. I have not used other languages other than Pascal except a small amount of Basic and node.js, so not in a position to evaluate languages for any purpose including web-applicatoin developments. But I can use the same module both on Windows application and web server application, and I have written my own expression parsing and evaluation module encompassing my own data types --- like integer set including all range of integers (actually they are array of ranges) --- which seems rather difficult to write with other script based interpreger-like languages.  And I wrote the expression parsing (and evaluation) module about 25 years ago, and applied it for many applications. 
Pascal wouldn't have any merits in just showing static documents. But it may be advantageous over other languages in cases where rather complex calculations are required. Much of display control in browsers are done by HTML or CSS.
As I told, I'm not widely experienced with programming. But webserver could be an area where pascal-based languages are applied wider than now.

anyone

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2020, 10:02:39 pm »
(snipped)

Thank you for your thorough answers given in your replies. I really enjoyed reading your comment.

It is a relief to know that coders aged above 40 are still acceptable to develop desktop apps.


darksoft

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2020, 02:40:16 pm »
(snipped)

Thank you for your thorough answers given in your replies. I really enjoyed reading your comment.

It is a relief to know that coders aged above 40 are still acceptable to develop desktop apps.

I'm 55 and coding desktop apps...

MemAvail

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2023, 05:25:36 pm »
Howdy, folks.

I need a career advice.

My background:

For the last 11+ years I've been working as a Java developer, mostly backend - rests and microservices. For the last 3-4 years management tried to push frontend tasks, which I've learned to hate with passion. Now, at the end of this summer, the company terminated two hundred workers, including myself.
Software development job market around here is not in a good shape right now. Also I've lost a couple of months due to personal reasons and overall situation in my country didn't help either.
I never wanna touch frontend again in my life, and I've been looking at Pascal and Delphi for the last couple of years as a source of inspiration, although I never managed to do anything significant with it while I was busy. Also the Pascal nostalgia is a big factor for me.
During the next couple of months I need to push my job searching efforts to the max. What kind of certification, or other learning format (maybe just straight Leetcode grind?) would you recommend to get prepared for the interviews/toolchains/positions which will help me to stay away from the frontend ? I personally gravitate towards Pascal, Delphi, C#, even Cobol - if I have to master something new at this point. Java around here (somehow) is always just a frontend appendix...

440bx

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2023, 09:16:55 pm »
You didn't mention in which country you reside, that is quite likely a significant factor in the job market make up.

What caught my attention is that you mention you are willing to program in COBOL, if that is the case and, you don't mind a "big iron" type of environment (usually IBM mainframe) then, while the demand is not as high as for other languages, there is a whole lot less competition (and programmer availability), this means, odds are reasonably good that you can get a well paid job fairly quickly.

If you go that route, one crucial thing to keep in mind is that likely over 99% of the work will be existing code maintenance.  If you don't like maintaining code, COBOL is likely not a good choice. Also, you'll need to have at least some idea of the various databases and indexed file methods that are commonly/accessed in COBOL (among other things... you need to be, at least, somewhat familiar with the environment.)

The job market for Pascal/Delphi is usually small and there are usually many experienced programmers interested in those few jobs, that could be a problem for you, particularly given that, based on what you said, your experience seems to be a bit "dated".

if you don't mind learning .net (if you don't know it already) then C# may be a reasonable possibility.  Can't offer any useful comments in that area because I've never used C# in anything that remotely resembles a professional environment.  That said, since it is currently a popular language, you may want to have a close look at what opportunities it offers.

HTH and best of luck to you.

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MemAvail

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2023, 11:13:10 am »
Thanks alot for the feedback, mate.

I live in one of the two countries that "makes the news" nowadays.

You didn't mention in which country you reside, that is quite likely a significant factor in the job market make up.

What caught my attention is that you mention you are willing to program in COBOL, if that is the case and, you don't mind a "big iron" type of environment (usually IBM mainframe) then, while the demand is not as high as for other languages, there is a whole lot less competition (and programmer availability), this means, odds are reasonably good that you can get a well paid job fairly quickly.

If you go that route, one crucial thing to keep in mind is that likely over 99% of the work will be existing code maintenance.  If you don't like maintaining code, COBOL is likely not a good choice. Also, you'll need to have at least some idea of the various databases and indexed file methods that are commonly/accessed in COBOL (among other things... you need to be, at least, somewhat familiar with the environment.)

The job market for Pascal/Delphi is usually small and there are usually many experienced programmers interested in those few jobs, that could be a problem for you, particularly given that, based on what you said, your experience seems to be a bit "dated".

if you don't mind learning .net (if you don't know it already) then C# may be a reasonable possibility.  Can't offer any useful comments in that area because I've never used C# in anything that remotely resembles a professional environment.  That said, since it is currently a popular language, you may want to have a close look at what opportunities it offers.

HTH and best of luck to you.

cpalx

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2024, 12:36:18 pm »
Look this

https://infinitus.pe

I made a core banking software in Lazarus
« Last Edit: January 05, 2024, 12:44:21 pm by cpalx »

Thaddy

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Re: Looking For Remote Programming Job
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2024, 01:11:55 pm »
I missed a remark by Marcov in this very old thread:
My reply is that if a "programmer" is restricted to one language he or she is not a professional programmer. Period. Professionals should not have much issues switching between languages. Bur what is true is that they are often confused by the breadth and depth of libraries, not syntax. It is most of the time that libraries have no exact match between programming languages. Syntax as such should be no issue for a real programmer.
I have a tip: make sure you are proficient in COBOL if you want to get rich... That is still (2024) the case. (I can still get easily $200+ an hour and get approached many - 4-8 - times a year, even if they know I recently retired). This will be the case for the forseable future. Locations London, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Brussels and it helps if you know about banking and mainframes. Some run COBOL even on modern hardware.
COBOL is defnitely not top 5...Same goes for Pascal: it is a niche but there is too many live code still used since the late 90's early 2000's. That is where the money is.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2024, 01:28:52 pm by Thaddy »
Specialize a type, not a var.

 

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