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JLWest

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Question about Web info and copyright
« on: February 23, 2020, 11:20:24 pm »
Is it a copyright violation to copy the data from a screen full of data on a website?
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lainz

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2020, 11:27:19 pm »
If the data is copyrighted yes.

If the data is in the public domain isn't. If the author allows it as well.
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trev

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2020, 11:48:26 pm »
Is it a copyright violation to copy the data from a screen full of data on a website?

The answer to this depends on local laws and the website.

The best course of action is to ask permission from the website owner to copy the data you want.
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JLWest

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2020, 12:11:19 am »
Well it seems to me if it is displayed on a website then you can see it. Therefore you could write the info down and then use. So to copy it and use it is almost the same as writing it down and using it.

I'm saying use it, Not sell it.
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lainz

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2020, 12:20:13 am »
Well it seems to me if it is displayed on a website then you can see it. Therefore you could write the info down and then use. So to copy it and use it is almost the same as writing it down and using it.

I'm saying use it, Not sell it.

Yes it depend for what you're using it. If it's for personal use or commercial use.

For example you can use icons from some icons websites and must add a link back to the site crediting it.

You can use any online encyclopedia but of course you must quote the sources if you publish something.

Copyrighted photos can not be used without author permission.

So it depends always on the content and the license the author puts into it.

So if you want help better tell us the kind of information it is, better with a link to it and we can tell you, if there is some info available on the website... everything else better consider it copyrighted and don't take risks. Ask the author better.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 12:22:42 am by lainz »
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JLWest

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2020, 02:05:51 am »
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/hea

It the flight data presented for an airport.
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JLWest

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2020, 05:42:25 am »
Wonder how you can  download  but can't copy.

I copy the data, don't change. in any way.
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trev

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2020, 08:19:14 am »
Quote
Permission is granted to temporarily download one copy of the materials (information or software) from the Services for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only.

This makes it clear that it covers only the loading the web page with the data in your web browser (hence "transitory viewing only").

If you want to otherwise use the data, then you need to seek permission, unless there is some limited use exception in Swedish copyright law that might apply.
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MarkMLl

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2020, 10:18:46 am »
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/hea

It the flight data presented for an airport.

Some of that data will be in the public domain. Historically as I understand it, the situation for things like street directories was that purely factual information ("The houses on the North side of this street start at 1 and are all odd-numbered, except for the sequence 11, 11a and 15") can't be copyrighted, while the layout and any ancillary information including collation with other sources of information can. For something like flight data I'd expect there to be some sort of public announcement from the airport concerned, which is probably what that website is using as its primary source.

All of this is very much in the public eye because of the Oracle vs Google case over Java API definitions.

The "I'm allowed to see it so I must have the right to make a single temporary copy" is very similar to the "Treat it like a book" license that Borland applied to (early) Turbo Pascal. However reasonable and attractive it might appear I don't know whether it was ever tested in court.

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marcov

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2020, 10:27:31 am »
Well it seems to me if it is displayed on a website then you can see it.

You can also see a book in a store, or watch TV, still it is all still copyrighted. Why would this be different?

MarkMLl

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2020, 10:57:09 am »
Well it seems to me if it is displayed on a website then you can see it.

You can also see a book in a store, or watch TV, still it is all still copyrighted. Why would this be different?

It's the distinction between who owns the copyright and who has a license to use the material. For example, Disney own the copyright of the material on that DVD you bought last weekend, and they choose to allow that material to be viewed only in certain regions. As another example, Torvalds et al. own the copyright of the Linux kernel and associated modules, but allow it to be used with few restrictions.

Copyright and conditions of use (license) are distinct.

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trev

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2020, 01:52:39 pm »
For something like flight data I'd expect there to be some sort of public announcement from the airport concerned, which is probably what that website is using as its primary source.

Not even close! The data is collected from the aircraft transponders using automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) receivers. Flightradar24 has a network of more than 20,000 ADS-B receivers around the world that receive flight information from aircraft with ADS-B transponders and send this information to their servers.

The information is copyrighted. Use of it for other than transitory viewing is forbidden by their licence. The original poster needs to ask their permission unless there is some limited exception in the relevant Swedish law. IAAL.
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MarkMLl

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2020, 02:48:55 pm »
For something like flight data I'd expect there to be some sort of public announcement from the airport concerned, which is probably what that website is using as its primary source.

Not even close! The data is collected from the aircraft transponders using automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) receivers. Flightradar24 has a network of more than 20,000 ADS-B receivers around the world that receive flight information from aircraft with ADS-B transponders and send this information to their servers.

The information is copyrighted. Use of it for other than transitory viewing is forbidden by their licence. The original poster needs to ask their permission unless there is some limited exception in the relevant Swedish law. IAAL.

I am fully aware of that. But if you go back through the thread you will find

> It the flight data presented for an airport.

...and "flight data" in the context of an airport is usually interpreted as arrivals and departures, as distinct from aircraft movement.

Now, I fully accept that if the information being presented is /entirely/ derived from monitoring the planes' transponders that the website operator has some claim to it. But OP is specifically saying that it is airport data, and I'd expect aircraft arrival and departures to be published accurately by the local controllers: (a) as a matter of public record and (b) to comply with their responsibilities to controllers in adjoining countries (even if that is treated as privileged in the country of origin, a close parallel being UK Met Office observations).

In addition to that, one has to ask whether Flightradar24 really is legally entitled to receive that transponder information, since if they aren't it might be difficult for them to make copyright claims stick. Specifically, in the UK there certainly used to be a paragraph in the wireless regulations (back in the day when one got them from Waterloo Bridge Road) which prohibited receiver owners from using their equipment to monitor non-public transmissions: I believe that one is still supposed to not listen to aircraft bands (unless authorised to use them) and it would be entirely reasonable to extend that to aircraft (etc.) transponders.

Now I'd be the last to challenge Flightradar24, since I believe that they provide a useful service (and a fascinating one, if one is that sort of geek). But in the general case I believe that my point applies: factual information can't be copyrighted, in the same way that statements of fact can't be patented. But details of layout, even something as trivial as the number of decimals or the choice of columns to appear in a table, can. As, obviously, is their choice of adverts and the commercial relationship they have with their advertisers, which is really what their copyright is all about.

MarkMLl
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JLWest

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Re: Question about Web info and copyright
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2020, 05:27:56 pm »
You are mixing two different things here.

Flight data for aircraft in flight and Schedules. These are two different things and the data comes from two sources.

Aircraft in flight comes from  ADS-B  system while schedules are supplied by each carrier to the airport. ADS-B systems can't predict what AAL or DAL is going to fly and where, Only where the aircraft is currently under certain conditions. If the aircraft has no power ADS-B can't see it.
 
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