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Author Topic: LazPaint and RAW images  (Read 2159 times)

Dick Maley

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LazPaint and RAW images
« on: October 09, 2019, 09:12:07 pm »
Can LazPaint edit RAW images?

circular

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2019, 10:09:53 pm »
Hello

I have been thinking about it, though I don't have any RAW images or specifications for that. Are there different RAW formats? What are they?
Conscience is the debugger of the mind

winni

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2019, 10:32:41 pm »
@circular

Oh, oh, oh! Dont waste your time. Every manufactor has his own proprietary format. Sometimes there is a doc, other companies keep it secret.

A good info is from openraw.org:

https://www.openraw.org/info/index.html

But it seems that there are no activites at openraw since over 10 years. Perhaps they gave up.

I wish i could have given you another answer. But the situation needs realy a lot of reverse energeering!

Winni
 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 10:35:01 pm by winni »

winni

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2019, 10:56:39 pm »
@circular

I forgot: even the Gimp maintainers refused to implement RAW format min their import/export plugins - and there is nearly everthing: image format for astronomers and medicals (X-Ray pictures). And for the "bach to the 80s" there is an asciiart output plugin.

But there is a standalone program that converts RAW to known image formats: UFRaw.

Short overview at https://expertphotography.com/open-raw-images-gimp-ufraw/#What_Is_UFRaw

Homepage at sourceforge: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwikpumXi5XlAhVPJFAKHS6EB9YQFjAAegQIABAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fufraw.sourceforge.net%2F&usg=AOvVaw18WQB2RUvsyd3Xs8I-LF0F

Supported cameras are here: http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/Cameras.html

Winni

circular

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2019, 11:38:57 pm »
Hmm yeah maybe it is simpler to use a dedicated program to convert them if there's so much reverse engineering
Conscience is the debugger of the mind

circular

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2019, 11:44:33 am »
There seem to be command line programs that maybe could be interfaced in LazPaint? Or maybe there are already good enough GUI?
Conscience is the debugger of the mind

Peter H

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2019, 01:56:05 pm »
I think, dcraw is the standard. (Or has been the standard, because development apparently is stalled)
https://www.dechifro.org/dcraw/
Almost any free or commercial raw decoder uses it or portions of it.

Raw images are not edited, they are developed into another editable format, eg. tiff.

Another possibility is Adobes DNG converter.
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/adobe-dng-converter.html
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 02:43:39 pm by Peter H »

winni

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2019, 06:14:38 pm »
Hi!

Adobes DNG converter is poor. Supported Cameras:

    Canon EOS RP
    Panasonic LUMIX DC-FZ1000M2 (DC-FZ10002)
    Panasonic LUMIX DC-S1
    Panasonic LUMIX DC-S1R
    Panasonic LUMIX DC-ZS80 (DC-TZ95, DC-TZ96, DC-TZ97)
    Sony A6400 (ILCE-6400)

That's why it is for free!

Winni

Peter H

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2019, 09:34:57 pm »
It /should/ support all cameras which are supported by Adobe Camera Raw (Lightroom, Photoshop) and possibly new cameras that are so new that Camera Raw has no support.

Many years ago I used it, but I cannot give instructions.
It produces the Adobe DNG format, which is an open standard made by Adobe, and the application must be able to read the DNG format.

winni

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2019, 09:54:11 pm »
@circular

I just stumbled over UFRaw:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFRaw

There is also a command line version for batch files.
It works on Linux & Mac & Windows.

Perhaps it fits to your needs.

Winni


circular

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2019, 03:46:53 pm »
It seems UFRaw uses dcraw as a backend.

So I suppose dcraw is the way.

Are there repositories with raw images? Personally i have none.
Conscience is the debugger of the mind

winni

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2019, 05:06:32 pm »
@circular

I dont no repositories with raw images, but

* The university of Waterloo has an ftp directory full of them:
  http://links.uwaterloo.ca/Repository/RAW/


* Famous Hasselblad has a page where you can download 16 raw images:
https://www.hasselblad.com/learn/sample-images/

* And from 3 "beauty models" you can download raw images. With a lot of color in the face.
https://retouchingacademylab.com/free-raw-practice-files/

Enough to start?

Winni

circular

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2019, 06:25:13 pm »
Wonderful  :)

I’ve added the issue on GitHub
https://github.com/bgrabitmap/lazpaint/issues/86
Conscience is the debugger of the mind

Peter H

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2019, 07:19:57 pm »

* The university of Waterloo has an ftp directory full of them:
  http://links.uwaterloo.ca/Repository/RAW/



These are not "RAW" images out of digital camera. Too small.  ;D
"RAW" images cant be recognized from the extension.
The extension is e.g. "ORF" for Olympus, "CRW" for Canon and so on. Each camera vendor has its own proprietary raw format and file extension.
"Raw" images contain the original undeveloped (raw) sensordata, uncompressed or lossless compressed and are very large.
The size is commonly 10MB and no limit up.

You can get raw files from camera review sites for example here:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m1/16
Select "RAW" instead of JPEG, then the file is offered for download.
Most cameras have been tested and are available.

It should be said, raw image files cannot be simply converted and loaded.
They must be deconvoluted and processed before they are visible.
The colorspace of the physical camera sensor must be converted to the target color space (commonly sRGB or AdobeRGB) of the image.
Noise must be removed. Dead pixels or unusuable pixels (for phase detection) must be interpolated.

Possibly geometric distortion and chromatic abberation of the camera lens must be compensated. (DCraw and most open source raw converters dont do this automatically. For this you need a commercial converter, probably these read the maker notes and this content is under NDA and not freely available, it must be reengineered)

This is not a straigthforward process. There are a lot of steps where parameter adjustments and decisions must be made which are not fixed, but are a matter of the skills and taste of the photographer.

It is probably better to use an existing tool, because photographer who use the raw format of their camera will probably want to use their preferred tool for raw development.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 10:48:41 pm by Peter H »

circular

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Re: LazPaint and RAW images
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2019, 07:15:18 pm »
Thank you for your input Peter. Though two links provided by winni seem to contain images without 'raw' extension. Maybe you were you a bit quick discarding his input.

Regarding your detailed explanation, I am not sure I understood your point but what I get from what you say is that dcraw handles almost everything except possible geometric distortion and chromatic abberation of the camera lense. Is it what you were saying?
Conscience is the debugger of the mind