Recent

Author Topic: Laz  (Read 1604 times)

Micaro

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
Laz
« on: July 16, 2019, 09:24:22 pm »
I believe that the popularity of Lazarus can be greatly enhanced very easily by our community.

We could promote Laz as the affectionately shortened form for casual use. "Laz programmer," "Laz program," "Just do it in Laz."

Of course, the wonderful name Lazarus must remain in other contexts. Sounds silly, right?

But in my experience, such silliness has influence. Many otherwise reluctant programmers might find Laz cool (despite some critics no doubt disparaging us with "lazy"), while Lazarus may currently seem out of the mainstream to them. It's kind of a "Les  Miz" thing, suggesting you're among the "in" group of "Les Miserables" enthusiasts.

I'm a gambler and my over/under is a quick 37 percent increase in usage if the short alternative term becomes common.

-- Mike Caro


skalogryz

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2292
    • havefunsoft.com
Re: Laz
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2019, 10:50:23 pm »
...should be a big plus from LGBT community as well!
Patron Cocoa Widgetset development https://www.patreon.com/skalogryz

Martin_fr

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • wiki
Re: Laz
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2019, 11:02:16 pm »
And here goes yet another promise. Countless times before have we been told, if we were to do X, it would bring a huge amount of new users in a given time T. Never has it yet happened. That is the few times were the action X had been taken. (Like when we went version 1.0, which we were promised would bring countless new users).

Hypothetical:
If I were in power to make the decision you seek, I would challenge you to pledge some huge amount of money (of your personal money). You get it back, if the new users would indeed come (and stay).  I wonder if you would be willing to pledge such a sum. After all you seem certain that you are right, so you would not loose them. Or could you?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 11:04:55 pm by Martin_fr »

skalogryz

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2292
    • havefunsoft.com
Re: Laz
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2019, 01:36:41 am »
Countless times before have we been told, if we were to do X, it would bring a huge amount of new users in a given time T. Never has it yet happened.
Offtop, but does it mean, that "huge amount of new users" would not be used as "switching to git" argument?
Patron Cocoa Widgetset development https://www.patreon.com/skalogryz

Martin_fr

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • wiki
Re: Laz
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2019, 02:07:10 am »
Offtop, but does it mean, that "huge amount of new users" would not be used as "switching to git" argument?
IIRC, it (that statement) was tried already. Also is this an argument or a thesis? And further, it appears that it may not be possible to hinder anyone to "use" it, but if they do they may find it to be of no particular effect.

skalogryz

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2292
    • havefunsoft.com
Re: Laz
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2019, 02:58:14 am »
IIRC, it (that statement) was tried already. Also is this an argument or a thesis?
It's an argument when making a decision of switching to git (vs staying with svn).
...and a thesis that git brings more developers to a project.
Patron Cocoa Widgetset development https://www.patreon.com/skalogryz

RAW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 794
Re: Laz
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2019, 05:24:45 am »
I guess most people are driven by mostly 2 reasons:

1. Reason:
pure "logic": for example:
If I can program a certain kind of program extremly fast and easy with a programming tool, then that's a good one!

2. Reason:
pure mainstream manipulated opinion: for example:
You can only program a game with C++, if you decide to do a game with something else, then it's not a real game, it's a joke, it's something bad ... very bad... so you need to use C++ to program a game... really! believe me! Trust the magazines and the newspapers, they know what is true ... and of course they know what is best for you! Do what they want you to do .. yesterday!!!  :D

Yeah, I couldn't deny myself ... sue me !
Windows 7 Pro (x64 Sp1) And Windows XP Pro (x86 Sp3) - LAZARUS 2.0.4 FPC 3.0.4 - TRUNK 2.1.0 FPC 3.3.1

alexone

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Laz
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2019, 06:30:22 am »
the greatest gains is where the market is going to in the geatest numbers. Mobile.
Install
code
run.

Install --is decent still a pain in you know what -- a seperate copy of each/one desktop the other mobile.
No really easy way with dropdowns(tools) as in Delphi -- virtually seamless. Code -- switch targets -- compile run.
Run -- a bitch to set up libraries for emulation -- now just using straight-up phone install.



« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 06:31:57 am by alexone »

PascalDragon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 745
  • Compiler Developer
Re: Laz
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2019, 09:21:37 am »
...should be a big plus from LGBT community as well!
Why do you think that? (honest question)

kupferstecher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 325
Re: Laz
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2019, 10:50:25 am »
And here goes yet another promise. Countless times before have we been told, if we were to do X, it would bring a huge amount of new users in a given time T. Never has it yet happened. That is the few times were the action X had been taken. (Like when we went version 1.0, which we were promised would bring countless new users).
The "huge amount" probably is not correct, but its hard to say if a certein action actually had a positive result or not.
When I started with Lazarus the first WTF-moment was when the undocked windows of Lazarus popped up. By now I actually prefer it compared to a docked design, but it took time to learn the benefits. For others this may have been a show stopper already. Choosing a new tool, programming language and environment is a huge time investment, people tend to mainstream. In the end its an emotional decision. So I'd say yes, such small things do play a roll. But in total and not as a single "improvement".

Note: i don't advocate for the name "Laz".

marcov

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7641
Re: Laz
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2019, 11:19:21 am »
Countless times before have we been told, if we were to do X, it would bring a huge amount of new users in a given time T. Never has it yet happened.
Offtop, but does it mean, that "huge amount of new users" would not be used as "switching to git" argument?

Constantly, and usually heavily conflating git with github. Some even say they want to change to git because they already have a github account, bypassing a few realities:

- git is not github
- github as US hosted company will never be a primary mirror, so whatever accounts it has is irrelevant for the discussion.
- developers won't probably spend aeons poring over new users branches to find a few nuggets that are not touched by unnecessary reformatting and renaming. IOW one still has to create somewhat quality content to submit to as new feature or not.

But as usual in these discussions, the mere idea is all. Details are irrelevant.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 11:26:22 am by marcov »

marcov

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7641
Re: Laz
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2019, 11:20:02 am »
2. Reason:
pure mainstream manipulated opinion: for example:
You can only program a game with C++, if you decide to do a game with something else, then it's not a real game, it's a joke, it's something bad ... very bad... so you need to use C++ to program a game... really! believe me! Trust the magazines and the newspapers, they know what is true ... and of course they know what is best for you! Do what they want you to do .. yesterday!!!  :D

Yeah, I couldn't deny myself ... sue me !

Yeah. Aka herd mentality.

skalogryz

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2292
    • havefunsoft.com
Re: Laz
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2019, 03:26:03 pm »
- github as US hosted company will never be a primary mirror, so whatever accounts it has is irrelevant for the discussion.
one needs to stress, it's not just US hosted company. It's Microsoft hosted company xD

...should be a big plus from LGBT community as well!
Why do you think that? (honest question)
It's just a random note.
Patron Cocoa Widgetset development https://www.patreon.com/skalogryz

marcov

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7641
Re: Laz
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2019, 03:48:55 pm »
- github as US hosted company will never be a primary mirror, so whatever accounts it has is irrelevant for the discussion.
one needs to stress, it's not just US hosted company. It's Microsoft hosted company xD

Yup and even prime MS cloud services are considered cloud-non-grata let alone the freebie ones.  :D

That said, I don't know what secondary (mirror) repo options are for github.

Micaro

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
Re: Laz
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2019, 02:28:25 pm »
And here goes yet another promise. Countless times before have we been told, if we were to do X, it would bring a huge amount of new users in a given time T. Never has it yet happened. ...

Hypothetical:
If I were in power to make the decision you seek, I would challenge you to pledge some huge amount of money (of your personal money). You get it back, if the new users would indeed come (and stay).  ...

I'm confused. What did I promise? I'm speculating that, without changing the name Lazarus, if the community often referred to it affectionately as Laz, that might appeal to a broader base for purely psychological reasons. -- Mike Caro