Recent

Author Topic: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?  (Read 31042 times)

trev

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 998
  • Former Delphi 1-7, 10.2 User
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #75 on: May 13, 2020, 09:14:12 am »
I'm still trying to find all deprecated functions in our code.
Is there any news how automate this work?
Probably notarization tool can do it? Or not?

Notarization does not report deprecated functions - I've notarized  applications which contain functions deprecated in macOS 10.8 (Mountain Lion) and there were no warnings of any sort in the notarization log file. I only noticed the deprecations while trawling the Apple developer Documentation site.
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r63871, FPC v3.3.1 r46876, macOS 10.14.6 (with sup update), Xcode 11.3.1
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r61574, FPC v3.3.1 r42318, FreeBSD 12.1 amd64 (VMware Fusion VM)
o FPC 3.0.4, FreeBSD 12.2-STABLE r365646 amd64
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r61574, FPC v3.0.4, Ubuntu 18.04 (Parallels VM)

Igor Kokarev

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2020, 09:42:13 am »
Notarization does not report deprecated functions - I've notarized  applications which contain functions deprecated in macOS 10.8 (Mountain Lion) and there were no warnings of any sort in the notarization log file. I only noticed the deprecations while trawling the Apple developer Documentation site.

OK, I've understood. Thanks.

cobata

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Programmer-analyst
    • COBATA Software - Research, Development, Testing, Consulting
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2020, 04:00:33 pm »
Igor,

The Cocoa ws is near to the official stable release...
I asked the community to port Carbon 32 to 64 too with no success and finally decided that it is lost war with Apple (you know they f..ked even Embarcadero (and even automotive industry) with their often changing policies.
By me, it is more reasonable to continue to develop my software functionality and to recompile it for Cocoa when it is officially released.

Regards
COBATA Software - Research, Development, Testing, Consulting
https://www.COBATA.com/

cobata

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Programmer-analyst
    • COBATA Software - Research, Development, Testing, Consulting
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #78 on: May 13, 2020, 04:07:25 pm »
The Cocoa ws is near to the official stable release...

I mean that all bugs I found for my software on porting and testing from Carbon to Cocoa I had reported and after an year they are all fixed...
It was maybe better to find your bugs and to report and to support them during the development of your software.
COBATA Software - Research, Development, Testing, Consulting
https://www.COBATA.com/

Igor Kokarev

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2020, 12:35:54 pm »
It's very hard to find deprecated functions in existing code.

For example, GetCurrentProcess() from ApplicationServices framework.

I very hope that it there is some solutino to automate this work.

PascalDragon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2248
  • Compiler Developer
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #80 on: May 14, 2020, 01:30:02 pm »
By me, it is more reasonable to continue to develop my software functionality and to recompile it for Cocoa when it is officially released.

It already is officially released: Lazarus for macOS on x86_64 uses Cocoa.

trev

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 998
  • Former Delphi 1-7, 10.2 User
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #81 on: May 14, 2020, 01:31:15 pm »
Automation: Xcode shows deprecation warnings which I understand are based off the header files. If the function has been removed, then of course Xcode won't compile it.

Otherwise: You need to resort to Apple's macOS release notes which only seem to go back to macOS 10.13.

I believe I've also seen the deprecations in FPC's converted macOS header files but I think FPC 3.0.4 is only up to date to macOS 10.5 and trunk is up to date to macOS 10.8.

I think the only sure way to know is to check your functions against the Apple online API documentation.
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r63871, FPC v3.3.1 r46876, macOS 10.14.6 (with sup update), Xcode 11.3.1
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r61574, FPC v3.3.1 r42318, FreeBSD 12.1 amd64 (VMware Fusion VM)
o FPC 3.0.4, FreeBSD 12.2-STABLE r365646 amd64
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r61574, FPC v3.0.4, Ubuntu 18.04 (Parallels VM)

Igor Kokarev

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2020, 11:34:22 am »
Thanks.

trev

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 998
  • Former Delphi 1-7, 10.2 User
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #83 on: May 16, 2020, 06:39:45 am »
Here is a listing (attached) of the deprecated functions for trunk as of r44876, 2020-04-20. Bear in mind this probably only catches deprecations up to macOS [edit]10.10 [/edit].
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 01:49:42 pm by trev »
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r63871, FPC v3.3.1 r46876, macOS 10.14.6 (with sup update), Xcode 11.3.1
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r61574, FPC v3.3.1 r42318, FreeBSD 12.1 amd64 (VMware Fusion VM)
o FPC 3.0.4, FreeBSD 12.2-STABLE r365646 amd64
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r61574, FPC v3.0.4, Ubuntu 18.04 (Parallels VM)

trev

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 998
  • Former Delphi 1-7, 10.2 User
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2020, 01:51:20 pm »
I finally found the Release Notes for macos10.12 and older back to OpenStep 4.x !
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r63871, FPC v3.3.1 r46876, macOS 10.14.6 (with sup update), Xcode 11.3.1
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r61574, FPC v3.3.1 r42318, FreeBSD 12.1 amd64 (VMware Fusion VM)
o FPC 3.0.4, FreeBSD 12.2-STABLE r365646 amd64
o Lazarus v2.1.0 r61574, FPC v3.0.4, Ubuntu 18.04 (Parallels VM)

VTwin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • Former Turbo Pascal 3 user
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #85 on: June 03, 2020, 03:43:37 am »
Cocoa support now exceeds past Carbon support, there is no reason to develop using Carbon anymore, it was deprecated in about 2012. It was available in fixes branch in 2.0.6, and in 2.0.8 is official.

Many thanks to the developers!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 03:46:29 am by VTwin »
“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” -Linus Torvalds

Free Pascal Compiler 3.2.0
macOS 10.13.6: Lazarus 2.0.10 (64 bit Cocoa)
Ubuntu 18.04.3: Lazarus 2.0.10 (64 bit on VBox)
Windows 7 Pro SP1: Lazarus 2.0.10 (64 bit on VBox)

skalogryz

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2518
    • havefunsoft.com
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #86 on: June 03, 2020, 04:27:38 am »
...unless targeting 10.5 or earlier
Patron Cocoa Widgetset development https://www.patreon.com/skalogryz

Thaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10516
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #87 on: June 03, 2020, 09:27:21 am »
It was maybe better to find your bugs and to report and to support them during the development of your software.
That is not how software development works. Coders take care of what they see, which is most of the bugs, but only testers can take care of scenario's that the coder can not see or predict.
Hence in my last job we had 40+ coders and 20 testers. Also had test automation in place (which takes care of a different category of bugs)

To sum up: it is not even likely that the coder can find all bugs. His focus is elsewhere. Testing requires other people. Hence bug reports exist.... And good coders appreciate those reports very much. Only bad coders find them annoying...

An example why this is the case:
Testers take also into account the expectations of functionality of the customer, as in owner of the software in general.
Coders work based on a given specification of functionality as in what needs to be coded.

The coder does not write the specification. The customer does. So testers are necessary to check if the specifications are right too. It is often the case that expectation and specification do not meet. That is not the fault of the coder....
Functional design - produced by the customer - technical design by the architect based on the functional design - finally given to the coder. These roles can intermix, but not often in large projects.
And all three of the roles can cause bugs....

Finally:
skalogryz is a very professional coder, so the remark you made is completely out of place. Reason: what you wrote as "better" HAS been done and is continuing... You obviously are too lazy to help. You say (paraphrased) it does not work. You don't give enough information beyond that. Not very helpful.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 09:56:45 am by Thaddy »

skalogryz

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2518
    • havefunsoft.com
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #88 on: June 03, 2020, 07:58:26 pm »
off topic:
Quote
A software QA engineer walks into a bar.
He orders a beer.
Orders 0 beers.
Orders 99999999999 beers.
Orders a lizard.
Orders -1 beers.
Orders a ueicbksjdhd.

First real customer walks in and asks where the bathroom is. The bar bursts into flames, killing everyone.

Finally:skalogryz is a very professional coder...
I don't know. My day time job is C# and C++, plus occasionally it's Web (JS) and SQL.

Chances are I'm not the best person to maintain ObjC frameworks via Pascal xD
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 08:00:16 pm by skalogryz »
Patron Cocoa Widgetset development https://www.patreon.com/skalogryz

VTwin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • Former Turbo Pascal 3 user
Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #89 on: June 05, 2020, 04:33:30 pm »
off topic:
Quote
A software QA engineer walks into a bar.
He orders a beer.
Orders 0 beers.
Orders 99999999999 beers.
Orders a lizard.
Orders -1 beers.
Orders a ueicbksjdhd.

First real customer walks in and asks where the bathroom is. The bar bursts into flames, killing everyone.

:D

"This software and any related documentation are provided as is without warranty of any kind, either express or implied, including, without limitation, the implied warranties or merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, or non-infringement. It may burst into flames. The entire risk arising out of use or performance of the software remains with you."
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 04:46:58 pm by VTwin »
“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” -Linus Torvalds

Free Pascal Compiler 3.2.0
macOS 10.13.6: Lazarus 2.0.10 (64 bit Cocoa)
Ubuntu 18.04.3: Lazarus 2.0.10 (64 bit on VBox)
Windows 7 Pro SP1: Lazarus 2.0.10 (64 bit on VBox)

 

TinyPortal © 2005-2018