Recent

Author Topic: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4  (Read 8496 times)

Zoran

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1457
    • http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/User:Zoran
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2019, 01:16:31 pm »
But I think what's more important is that the IDE can handle only the chm files provided. It is not possible to extend the IDE such that it reckognizes other CHM files coming with non-LCL packages. TAChart and fprspreadsheet are packages which are maintained by mayself have a chm file (or a chm file can be created), but there is no way to register these chm files for the IDE so that pressing F1 on the "TChart" identifier, for example, opens the related help page.

Martin, can you comment on this? Maybe I am missing something.

I'm also very interested in this, because TDateTimePicker, although installed by default, is outside the LCL package.
Perhaps I'm also missing something, but I don't think that it can be integrated in context-sensitive help system.

zoltanleo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2019, 02:47:33 pm »
What third party resources? They are in Lazarus Sourceforge (here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/files/Lazarus%20Documentation/Lazarus%202.0.2/).

I meant the following: when installing a Lazarus by a regular installer, the help files are already inside it.  If you compile Lazarus from the source code, the help files must be downloaded additionally.

I propose to put already compiled actual help files into the repository, from where OPM downloads package files.  Just like package files, OPM can unpack them into the ../docs/chm folder, only without installation, as happens with packages.

Can this be done?
Win7 Ultim x64/Deb 10 amd64 GTK3:
Lazarus x32 2.1(r.61636); FPC 3.3.1 (r.42519),
IBX by -Rik-; FB 3.0.4

Sorry for my bad English, I'm using translator ;)

totya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 577
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2019, 02:49:48 pm »
I meant the following: when installing a Lazarus by a regular installer, the help files are already inside it.  If you compile Lazarus from the source code, the help files must be downloaded additionally.

fpcupdeluxe/setup+/include help

Martin_fr

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5573
    • wiki
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2019, 04:12:34 pm »
I meant the following: when installing a Lazarus by a regular installer, the help files are already inside it.  If you compile Lazarus from the source code, the help files must be downloaded additionally.
I would have to check, but I do assume that our official source packages contain the sources for building the chm (fpcoc xml files). If you do an svn checkout those sources are included.

So if you build yourself, then you have the option to build the chm too. And that way you will get the most up to date help.

Of course the above is for the lcl and lazarus help. Fpc (rtl, fcl) help files would be part of how you install fpc. Or have -as you indicated - to be downloaded separately.

wp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6149
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2019, 04:26:00 pm »
I meant the following: when installing a Lazarus by a regular installer, the help files are already inside it.  If you compile Lazarus from the source code, the help files must be downloaded additionally.
I would have to check, but I do assume that our official source packages contain the sources for building the chm (fpcoc xml files). If you do an svn checkout those sources are included.

So if you build yourself, then you have the option to build the chm too. And that way you will get the most up to date help.

That's right, I did it several times: Compile "build_lcl_docs.lpi" (in folder (lazarus)/docs/html and on Windows adjust the path to the fpc binaries in "build_chm.bat" (I create a copy with the correct path to leave the original alone). Then run build_chm.bat on Windows, or build_chm.sh on Linux. Copy the created *.chm files into the (lazarus)/docs/chm folder.
Lazarus trunk / fpc 3.0.4 / all 32-bit on Win-10

zoltanleo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2019, 05:04:10 pm »
@Martin_fr
@wp

Guys, forgive me my obsession. :-[

I know about the ability to manually compile help files from source code. Just as I know about the ability to compile and install a component from a package manually. But, if OPM is used as a "lazy" package installer, then it would not be a bad idea to teach it to compile and install help files from source code.

I do not insist on it. I just suggest considering this idea.

And I sincerely thank the Lazarus team for their great work and wonderful IDE :)
Win7 Ultim x64/Deb 10 amd64 GTK3:
Lazarus x32 2.1(r.61636); FPC 3.3.1 (r.42519),
IBX by -Rik-; FB 3.0.4

Sorry for my bad English, I'm using translator ;)

Martin_fr

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5573
    • wiki
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2019, 05:38:04 pm »
In any case, it is a topic for a diff thread.

zoltanleo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2019, 06:10:18 pm »
In any case, it is a topic for a diff thread.
ok, I will try to raise this topic in the mailing list when I have a little more free time.  Thanks for your time
Win7 Ultim x64/Deb 10 amd64 GTK3:
Lazarus x32 2.1(r.61636); FPC 3.3.1 (r.42519),
IBX by -Rik-; FB 3.0.4

Sorry for my bad English, I'm using translator ;)

Thaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8679
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2019, 07:02:02 pm »
ok, I will try to raise this topic in the mailing list when I have a little more free time.  Thanks for your time
Unless you want to jump through hoops the documentation is  easiest to compile on *nixes.
I never succeeded in compiling the documentation on Windows for example. And I am no Noob.
Simply gave up and use Linux: works. Then copy to Windows. TeX support on Windows is still lacking I believe.
Most people that want to use threading should learn to patch their jeans first: use a needle.

zoltanleo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2019, 09:25:52 pm »
Unless you want to jump through hoops the documentation is  easiest to compile on *nixes.
I never succeeded in compiling the documentation on Windows for example. And I am no Noob.
Simply gave up and use Linux: works. Then copy to Windows. TeX support on Windows is still lacking I believe.
This is very strange.  I compile fpc and Lazarus, as well as help files mainly on windows.  And I never met any problems.  But I started this conversation in the hope that it is quite easy to implement.  I guess I was wrong.  I'm sorry.
Win7 Ultim x64/Deb 10 amd64 GTK3:
Lazarus x32 2.1(r.61636); FPC 3.3.1 (r.42519),
IBX by -Rik-; FB 3.0.4

Sorry for my bad English, I'm using translator ;)

dbannon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 644
    • tomboy-ng, a rewrite of the classic Tomboy
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2019, 02:14:35 pm »
....
Here is the list of fixes for Lazarus 2.0.2 (since 2.0.0):
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_2.0_fixes_branch
....

Wow, thats 174 fixes to Cocoa alone. Someone has been very busy !

Thanks folks, thanks indeed.

My Mac is 2000Km away, I cannot test it. But its it time to consider dropping the 'beta' status of Cocoa ?

Davo
Lazarus 2, Linux (and reluctantly Win10, OSX)
My Project - https://github.com/tomboy-notes/tomboy-ng

Thaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8679
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2019, 09:28:36 pm »
This is very strange.  I compile fpc and Lazarus, as well as help files mainly on windows.  And I never met any problems.  But I started this conversation in the hope that it is quite easy to implement.  I guess I was wrong.  I'm sorry.
You misunderstood: the help files for Lazarus is not a problem at all, but the REAL documentation of FreePascal itself (user's guide, programmer's guide, reference manual etc) https://freepascal.org/docs.html for the 3.0.4 version.
These are type set in TeX and Windows lacks a proper tool chain for that. (None of what you come up with will work)

I am not interested in help files (short-cut and incomplete documentation), I am interested in the books, that is what they  are and the only proper and guiding reference!
Under Linux or macOS/OSX, it is quite straight forward to build them into a pdf or html, but on Windows it is neigh impossible. Not for beginners or Windows centric programmers, though.

A pity so many people confuse the complete real documentation with help files.
And for trunk you need to build those books yourself. Period.

Take note of that.

Thaddy

 P.s: the books try to be complete and authoritative. the help files just pop-up - can be a blank page or just the subject - when you press F1 or a combination with F1. F1 does not have a particular helpful experience in my case... The Lazarus help sucks and I am not going to help to improve it. OTOH if something is not clear in the real FPC manuals I take the time to report it and suggest improvements through a bug report.
In its current state Lazarus help is beyond help. If I want to know more, I just grep -nHIiwrF the sources. Works way more informative.
(Lazarus help engineers: "Hey, look! we made F1 and crtl-F1 and even shift-F1 work! We Have Created Help:o :'( :'( )
« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 09:56:44 pm by Thaddy »
Most people that want to use threading should learn to patch their jeans first: use a needle.

kupferstecher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2019, 10:15:48 pm »
I am not interested in help files (short-cut and incomplete documentation), I am interested in the books, that is what they  are and the only proper and guiding reference!
The books are fantastic, but only for fpc. When people say, there is not enough documentation, then they mean for Lazarus, not for FPC.

Quote
The Lazarus help sucks and I am not going to help to improve it.
:(

Quote
If I want to know more, I just grep -nHIiwrF the sources. Works way more informative.
(Lazarus help engineers: "Hey, look! we made F1 and crtl-F1 and even shift-F1 work! We Have Created Help"
The help files helped me a lot in understanding the class structures, the descriptions are short, but without them...
I don't come from Delphi so the LCL-basics I all had to learn in the Lazarus environment. If the help files weren't available at that time, I probably wouldn't (=couldn't) have started with Freepascal/Lazarus. I didn't use the help via F1, though. But opened the chm-files manually (Better search support than in LHelp).
So my very thanks to the Lazarus help engineers!

zoltanleo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: We are planning the next release: Lazarus 2.0.4
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2019, 12:30:41 am »
These are type set in TeX and Windows lacks a proper tool chain for that. (None of what you come up with will work)
Yes, now I understand what you were talking about ... I will not argue, I know little about the functioning of this mechanism for publishing documents.

I am not interested in help files (short-cut and incomplete documentation), I am interested in the books, that is what they  are and the only proper and guiding reference!
I came from Delphi, there is nothing unusual for me to use Lazarus. Therefore, I am more interested in help files with some new features that are not available in Delphi.

I agree with your arguments that my wishes, which I wrote about above, cannot be technically implemented. And I thank you for the clarification.
Win7 Ultim x64/Deb 10 amd64 GTK3:
Lazarus x32 2.1(r.61636); FPC 3.3.1 (r.42519),
IBX by -Rik-; FB 3.0.4

Sorry for my bad English, I'm using translator ;)