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Author Topic: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)  (Read 78096 times)

isidroco

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2018, 08:18:00 pm »
I started using pascal with Turbo Pascal 3.0 which was in a single 39Kb .COM file, that included editor and compiler. I'm dissapointed that after installing I have 25000 files in 2000 directories. Please consider making a customize installer for a LITE version without languages and selected user features and units. It's unacceptable to have such a bloated installation for making a simple program.
I tried using FPCW without lazarus, but it's IDE doesn't show in which lines compiling errors occurs so it's useless, and it's still bloated.
I think I will return to BP in spite of it's limitations...
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 08:20:06 pm by isidroco »

Thaddy

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2018, 09:13:48 pm »
write program in console:
copy con helloworld.pas
program helloworld;
begin
  writeln('Hello,World');
end.ctrl^z

fpc -CX -XXs -Os helloworld.pas

start in console:
helloworld

Output:
Hello, World

Easy, convenient, and a small executable.... :o 8-) O:-)

edlin is slightly more advanced, of course...

After you understand that use fp.exe (or simply fp under other platforms than Windows) and equivalent to turbo.exe
After that try using these for a GUI program:

copy con hellowindows.pas
program hellowindows;
{$apptype GUI}
uses windows;
begin
  Messagebox(0,'Hello','World',MB_OK);
end. ctrl^z

Then use Lazarus and you will find it is more comfortable and achieves the same result (also in executable size) when you read some documentation.... And is actually a lot smaller than a full install of, say, Visual Studio...
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 09:27:18 pm by Thaddy »
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marcov

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2018, 09:27:22 pm »
I started using pascal with Turbo Pascal 3.0 which was in a single 39Kb .COM file, that included editor and compiler. I'm dissapointed that after installing I have 25000 files in 2000 directories. Please consider making a customize installer for a LITE version without languages and selected user features and units. It's unacceptable to have such a bloated installation for making a simple program.
I tried using FPCW without lazarus, but it's IDE doesn't show in which lines compiling errors occurs so it's useless, and it's still bloated.
I think I will return to BP in spite of it's limitations...

So... You still have the same size HDD as you had with TP3 too ?

Nitorami

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2018, 09:30:12 pm »
isidroco

whatever your profession or attitude, this is ridiculous. We are not in the 80s anymore, just in case you haven't noticed.
And before going back to BP with its limitation to 8-character filenames, 64k limitation, static arrays etc, I suggest you try the textmode IDE, which has the look and feel of BP. It comes with 2510 files in 135 folders, if that is so important to you.

Thaddy

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2018, 09:51:29 pm »
Indeed. I just checked BP7 for dos. It comes with less than 2% of libraries similar to the libraries provided by a simple FPC only install. Not very useful and besides it is a 16 bit compiler (with an extender capability for executables).
And I did NOT   :D edit my copy con code and it works, so who needs more as an editor? <grumpy  >:D O:-)>
(I edited the post, but not the code)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 09:59:37 pm by Thaddy »
also related to equus asinus.

Thaddy

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2018, 09:55:30 pm »
Note TP 1.0, 3.0 and 5.5 are still available for free and run fine under DosBox. Even on a Raspberry Pi zero...
http://edn.embarcadero.com/museum/

You have to maybe slow down dosbox, though, since:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ATurbo_Pascal#Timer_bug

Which applies...at least for 5.5. A RPi zero is faster than an 8086/88 even a 80286. ~80386DX4, which is where the problems started, IIRC.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 10:10:03 pm by Thaddy »
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isidroco

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2018, 01:03:33 am »
isidroco

whatever your profession or attitude, this is ridiculous. We are not in the 80s anymore, just in case you haven't noticed.
And before going back to BP with its limitation to 8-character filenames, 64k limitation, static arrays etc, I suggest you try the textmode IDE, which has the look and feel of BP. It comes with 2510 files in 135 folders, if that is so important to you.
You missed my poing, of course things had grown, but that's no excuse for making things bloated as Adobe and other companies do.
I tried using FPC textmode IDE, but as I said, it doesn't go to compiling error position, neither tell in which line is the error. So it's useless. Help files position was not remembered between sessions.
I understand we aren't in the 80s, but a customizable installer should be configurable to avoid having thousands of libraries or languages which will never be used.
I think BP 7 had Windows support so I'm not sure about longfilenames limitation.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 01:09:54 am by isidroco »

JuhaManninen

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2018, 06:55:25 am »
Thanks for the release. It seems to work great using Wine 1.8.7. on Linux.  :)
You can also use the native Linux version on Linux.

marcov

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2018, 01:04:11 pm »
I think BP 7 had Windows support so I'm not sure about longfilenames limitation.

It had win 3.11 support, not Win95 which introduced LFN. Moreover most of the windows support was limited to the windows compiler, not the dos one.

Thaddy

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2018, 01:31:18 pm »
You missed my poing, of course things had grown, but that's no excuse for making things bloated as Adobe and other companies do.
I tried using FPC textmode IDE, but as I said, it doesn't go to compiling error position, neither tell in which line is the error. So it's useless. Help files position was not remembered between sessions.
Add under compiler or debug options -GL or "also..."and you will get the line numbers....
Marco already answered your last point.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 01:35:56 pm by Thaddy »
also related to equus asinus.

Nitorami

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #55 on: March 19, 2018, 03:36:23 pm »
Quote
that's no excuse for making things bloated as Adobe and other companies do (...) So it's useless.
There is no company nor big money behind FPC, and it is completely free for use. If you don't like it, go away, but don't call it "useless".
I myself came from BP and hesitated a while before I switched but would never consider  to go back. Yes, FPC has a few corners and a bit of a learning curve. Just get over it. Ask the community when you get stuck.
The textmode IDE does display the line where an error occured, when configured properly.
My installation also remembers the location of the help files; your problem might be that the path names are too long, so consider to copy the files into a flat directory. Check where your .cfg and .ini files are stored, and make sure FPC uses the correct ones. If weird things seem to happen in the textmode IDE, you may want to delete the fp.dsk file which may cause trouble occasionally, at least in older versions. The file will be recreated automatically.

otoien

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #56 on: March 22, 2018, 08:06:43 am »
Note TP 1.0, 3.0 and 5.5 are still available for free and run fine under DosBox. Even on a Raspberry Pi zero...
http://edn.embarcadero.com/museum/

You have to maybe slow down dosbox, though, since:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ATurbo_Pascal#Timer_bug

Which applies...at least for 5.5. A RPi zero is faster than an 8086/88 even a 80286. ~80386DX4, which is where the problems started, IIRC.

I am still maintaining a rather large TP 5.5 application (about 90K program lines) and it has no problems running at unlimited speed in DOSBox. I have this data acquisition application running on 5-10 computers under DOSBox for analysis and a number of Win98/XP systems for acquiring data.  I cannot recall ever patching my compiler which I have an original licence for (file dates including TURBO.TPL still 1989-05-02, same as the museum file). Do not take my word for it, but I vaguely recall that this was a post TP 5.5 bug; I later was quite happy that I did not upgrade it further. Some quick searching indicates that the patches are mostly for later versions. But who knows, may be patching does not change the TURBO.TPL file date and I have forgotten that I patched it?

Just for fun I have even been able to run my TP5.5 application under aDosBox on an Andriod phone. :-)
(not very practical with respect to keyboard operation though).

Let me add that I think the installation and upgrade of the official Lazarus version is as easy as it can be, even when there is need to recompile Lazarus for the docked version; it is done in seconds rather than minutes. No need to worry about all the files installed if not using them. I once installed the free Delphi 10.1 Starter version in a VM and it seemed to take hours rather than minutes.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 08:39:17 am by otoien »
Unless otherwise noted I always use the latest stable version of Lasarus/FPC x86_64-win64-win32/win64

tverweij

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2018, 01:37:23 pm »
I just started with FPC/Lazarus, coming from VB.Net.
And I love it - congratulations to both teams.

But I'd like to give my wish list - no pressure meant.

I am used to certain things in Visual Studio that I really miss in Lazarus:

1. Place cursor on a function call, press a key to go to the implementation, repeat this several times, and then press another key to go back where I came from.
2. Inverse call tree - where is this function called from (1 click to go to the calling routine, 1 key press to go back.
3. Syntax check while typing - there is "Quick syntax check" but this does not find all problems. It would also be nice if it was executed after typing ; - making it a real time syntax check.
4. Split source, so I can edit the type declaration and the implementation at the same time.

Regards,
Theo


   

Martin_fr

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2018, 01:44:20 pm »
1. Place cursor on a function call, press a key to go to the implementation, repeat this several times, and then press another key to go back where I came from.
2. Inverse call tree - where is this function called from (1 click to go to the calling routine, 1 key press to go back.
3. Syntax check while typing - there is "Quick syntax check" but this does not find all problems. It would also be nice if it was executed after typing ; - making it a real time syntax check.
4. Split source, so I can edit the type declaration and the implementation at the same time.

1) There should be an option already to make "Go to declaration" jump to implementation instead.
Going back to where you came from also exists, Though one step at a time only.

2) "1 click" ? But there can be many source lines, that call the function you ask about. There is "Find References" Editor pop-up > Find

4) Use 2 Source Editor windows (context menu on "tab" of source editor, and "clone to new window".
Then "lock" (pop up of tab" the window with the declaration.

tverweij

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Re: Lazarus Release 1.8.2 (with FPC 3.0.4)
« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2018, 01:58:55 pm »
1. How? I can only find "Go to declararion", not "Go to implementtion" - and the going back: I can not find how to do that.

2. See this picture: https://builditsolutions.net/downloads/ReverseCallTree.png
This function has 12 callers, and when I click that, I get a list with the calls - 1 click on a call in the list sends me to the call.

4. Ok, found this one - clone to new window is really usefull.