Recent

Author Topic: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10  (Read 16834 times)

Thaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9303
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2017, 09:06:21 am »
I find it hard to believe that anyone is using Windows 9x anymore, for anything. What could the possible use case be?
Pinball? Or Hover?  ::)

In general people still use it because of legacy software that hasn't been ported. Or because it is their only legal license..

Oh, I see that Hover has been ported https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hover8-)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 09:11:52 am by Thaddy »
also related to equus asinus.

minesadorada

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
  • Retired
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2017, 09:37:41 am »
I find it hard to believe that anyone is using Windows 9x anymore, for anything. What could the possible use case be?
I run a golf society, and use a very old laptop with 512K RAM (which was donated) to calculate the scores 'onsite' at the end of competitions.  I would love to install something like Puppy Linux on it, but the scoring software is windows-only/MS Access, so it runs Windows 95 s.l.o.w.l.y. but adequately.

It also runs a couple of apps I wrote in Laz to allocate prize money and calculate new EGA handicaps.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 09:41:13 am by minesadorada »
GPL Apps: Health MonitorRetro Ski Run
OnlinePackageManager Components: LazAutoUpdate, LongTimer, PoweredBy, ScrollText, PlaySound, CryptINI

jacmoe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
    • Jacmoe's Cyber SoapBox
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2017, 09:45:20 am »
That's not a problem because you can keep using a version of FPC/Lazarus that does support win9x.

I just downloaded and ran a program that was compiled 7 years ago - cross compile for Linux 64 bit.
That is really impressive!
So you should be able to support that old machine until it dies, using an older Lazarus/FPC.
more signal - less noise

Thaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9303
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2017, 10:34:31 am »
That's also the recommended solution. Old machines with an old OS need old compilers and old libraries. 2.6.2 and unofficially 2.6.4.
also related to equus asinus.

Akira1364

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2017, 06:48:01 pm »
I find it hard to believe that anyone is using Windows 9x anymore, for anything. What could the possible use case be?
I run a golf society, and use a very old laptop with 512K RAM (which was donated) to calculate the scores 'onsite' at the end of competitions.  I would love to install something like Puppy Linux on it, but the scoring software is windows-only/MS Access, so it runs Windows 95 s.l.o.w.l.y. but adequately.

It also runs a couple of apps I wrote in Laz to allocate prize money and calculate new EGA handicaps.

Is the software impossible to port/unavailable for higher Windows versions, then?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 12:45:25 am by Akira1364 »

Handoko

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3239
  • My goal: build my own game engine using Lazarus
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2017, 06:58:41 pm »
Maybe the problem is the hardware. Laptop with 512K RAM is a very very very very old machine. Lucky for it, Win95 minimum requirement is 4MB.

Cyrax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2017, 07:05:37 pm »
I think that is 512 MB instead of KB...

I highly doubt that there were laptops with KB memory sticks installed.

Akira1364

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2017, 07:14:08 pm »
I think that is 512 MB instead of KB...

I highly doubt that there were laptops with KB memory sticks installed.

There definitely wasn't, considering that even Windows 3.1 needed at least 2MB!

molly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2017, 09:57:39 pm »
Is the software impossible to port/unavailable for higher Windows versions, then?
No idea how i would put my isa card into a pcie slot let alone that the legacy hardware manufacturer (read: non existing anymore) has drivers for ... let's say windows 10.

Akira1364

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2017, 12:50:21 am »
Is the software impossible to port/unavailable for higher Windows versions, then?
No idea how i would put my isa card into a pcie slot let alone that the legacy hardware manufacturer (read: non existing anymore) has drivers for ... let's say windows 10.

That's a fair point. I just didn't think that there was that much "mission critical" legacy software developed specifically for the (not very stable) vanilla Windows 9X series. Most of the custom stuff I dealt with back in the day was running on NT, and later on 2000/e.t.c...

Also, on a broader note: I wasn't suggesting minesadorada try to run a newer Windows version on that laptop itself... but if the software he's using could run on a higher Windows version, why not just have a raffle or fundraiser or something at the golf society to raise money for a new laptop?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 02:41:46 am by Akira1364 »

molly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2017, 07:13:16 am »
That's a fair point. I just didn't think that there was that much "mission critical" legacy software developed specifically for the (not very stable) vanilla Windows 9X series. Most of the custom stuff I dealt with back in the day was running on NT, and later on 2000/e.t.c...
Well you have a fair point in that it shouldn't. But, i think you also know how things work in practice. Some things simply turn into dust until the day someone realizes it has actually become mission critical so that budgets can be found to do something about it.

There are quite some companies that never went the NT road, mostly for budget reasons and/or unfamiliarity with nt.

Quote
Also, on a broader note: I wasn't suggesting minesadorada try to run a newer Windows version on that laptop itself... but if the software he's using could run on a higher Windows version, why not just have a raffle or fundraiser or something at the golf society to raise money for a new laptop?
Yes sorry that is my bad. I actually wanted to respond on your initial statement: "I find it hard to believe that anyone is using Windows 9x anymore, for anything. What could the possible use case be?" but got mixed up with quoting.

As long as things are software only it should usually be fairly easy to port unless there is some real stupid things going on inside the code.

Thaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9303
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2017, 07:20:40 am »
unless there is some real stupid things going on inside the code.
Loads of it. Even by WIN95 itself. It's called 16 bit thunking... :D That kind of code is often impossibly - financially prohibitively - hard to port by lack of a 16 bit sub-system.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 07:25:33 am by Thaddy »
also related to equus asinus.

molly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2017, 07:22:18 am »
unless there is some real stupid things going on inside the code.
Loads of it. Even by WIN95 itself. It's called 16 bit thunking... :D
Exactly   ;D

Besides that if you really have legacy software (only) that needs to run you could also opt for an emulator or virtual machine on newer and faster hardware. dosbox for example is perfectly capable of running win95.

I have no idea how that relates to the issue mentioned but just mention it just in case  :)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 07:28:32 am by molly »

Thaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9303
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2017, 07:35:02 am »
In the case of the golf society I would up the price of the Chardonnay. :o
also related to equus asinus.

Remy Lebeau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 681
    • Lebeau Software
Re: Supporting Windows from 95 to 10
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2017, 04:01:39 am »
In the end it just wasn't worth it anymore and now we almost completely stripped all Win9x code (AnsiString API calls) from Lazarus and rely fully on WideString API.
This inevitably will fail in Win9x.

Some of that is mitigated by installing the Microsoft Layer for Unicode on Windows 95, 98, and Me (MSLU) library.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 04:23:08 am by Remy Lebeau »
Remy Lebeau
Lebeau Software - Owner, Developer
Internet Direct (Indy) - Admin, Developer (Support forum)