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Author Topic: I've made some fairly significant progress on JuhaManninen's port of DeleD...  (Read 33056 times)

Akira1364

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We'll get there, don't worry. At this point though I haven't tested it on anything other than 64-Bit Windows 10, tuned for Haswell.
(I honestly would not have posted this thread until I had something ready to present, if I knew it was going to turn into something like this. I'm just a guy who went to SourceForge one day and downloaded the codebase!)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 07:34:36 pm by Akira1364 »

JuhaManninen

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I honestly would not have posted this thread until I had something ready to present, if I knew it was going to turn into something like this. I'm just a guy who went to SourceForge one day and downloaded the codebase!
Yes, I also think you are an innocent victim. You could not possibly guess that anybody would ask for the code after you had explained its significant progress in your lengthy posts. Of course not.

Surprisingly it is always other people's fault that you cannot show the code.
Lazarus IDE has bugs. JCF has bugs.
The average forum users are too cautious and have a wrong attitude.
The original DeleD authors made a poor job and their code must be totally altered.
What next? I still predict this will continue forever. We will see another excuse for sure.

To clarify: the code's license allows anybody to change it for his own personal use without showing it to anybody else, but writing long detailed stories about it just makes no sense.
It is totally unsocial.
This forum is about Pascal programming. When discussing details of certain piece of code, showing the code is the obvious number 1. priority. Akira1364 knows it as well as anybody else.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 11:27:16 am by JuhaManninen »

Bart

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OK, without the intent to offend anyone here....

To summon it up, there are 2 possibilities:

  • Akira1364 is a troll.
  • Akira1364 is not a troll, but is not willing to share his code, at least not right now.

In either case IMHO it is not worth posting about this:
  • For case 1: do not feed the trolls.
  • For case 2: just let him be.

So, just stop arguing about it.
Enetually he will release his code, or he will not.
In either case it makes no sense biggering about it.

Bart

JuhaManninen

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Ok, Bart is right.
Now however I have something positive in mind related to this issue.
I started to think of this :
You can at least provide an executable  ;)
No lainz, that would be a license violation. DeleD was published under GPL which requires source code to be available when an executable is delivered. At least the source must be provided on-demand if not directly with the executable.
Now Akira1364 follows the license rules as he does not deliver executables.

Akira1364, an idea for you: start to make business with DeleD. Maybe you had such an idea already.
It would make sense if you really have worked on the code and improved it as much as you say.
GPL allows business. The license authors even wrote a page about it to avoid misunderstandings:
 https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
If you sell the sources, the buyer is allowed to copy and distribute it forward for free if he wants, according to GPL. So you may be able to sell it only once.
On the other hand, if you put a low price (say 1 - 2 € or $), and make the payment process easy, many people could buy the code just to get an easy download link.
I for example would pay that to see your code.
Companies that make long term business with open sourced SW typically offer services and support for the product, and / or include commercial SW that connects somehow to it. You could do the same with DeleD.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 03:26:23 pm by JuhaManninen »

JD

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It's early in a new year. Please don't let this discussion get out of hand. We all need each other. That is the strength of a community.

JD
Windows (10, 7) - Lazarus 2.0RC3/FPC 3.2, NewPascal, Delphi

Indy 10.6 series; mORMot; Zeos 7.2.1; SQLite, Firebird, PostgreSQL & MariaDB; VirtualTreeView 5.5.3 R1

Akira1364

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I'm not a troll. Please, look at the multitude of screenshots I've posted, and compare them to the original application. That should be all the "proof" anyone needs. Do you want me to take a literal photo of my computer monitor while it's running the application, or something? Also, I have absolutely no intention of attempting to make any money off of this at any time, ever. Like I said before, one day I will upload the codebase, and nothing anyone thinks of me right now will matter anymore.

Surprisingly it is always other people's fault that you cannot show the code.

I have never implied that. I openly admitted to the fact that being slowed down by the IDE reflected poorly on me, and not the IDE.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 07:33:53 pm by Akira1364 »

Handoko

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I believe Akira is not a troll. He has his reasons why the code should not be publicized now. Please be patient, what he doing is a great contribution to the Pascal communities. We should not push him but support him.

Hi Akira. From the screenshots I can see this program is awesome. I am very eager to try the improved version. You have mentioned lots of improvements, so hope you can understand people here are very impatient to try it or see the code.

JuhaManninen

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I will wait patiently. Maybe there are valid reasons for not publishing the code although I may not fully understand them.
Sorry for pushing this issue.

I want to clarify my business comment. There was no joke or irony involved from my side. Business around open source SW is typically a win-win situation both for the SW project and for the entrepreneur.
Unfortunately there was a blogger with a mission to kill all Lazarus forks and business around it, thus this may still be a sensitive topic here.
Anyway, if somebody starts business around DeleD or FPC or Lazarus or any project, I personally see it as a positive thing.

Akira1364

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That's a valid point, but I, uh, have a job already.  ;) I suppose someone else could technically do this if they wanted to though, once I put the code out there. Also, regarding releasing an executable without the code: Jeroen Commandeur (one of the original DeleD developers) straight-up asked me if "there was an executable we could try", in the thread I made on the DeleD forums, which would seem to directly imply that it wouldn't be a problem. (To be honest it's quite likely that he doesn't even remember what license DeleD CE specifically used, as he hasn't worked on it for years and is now focused on the web-based version.) So I actually probably will upload some test builds first, in the period leading up to when I upload the code.

apeoperaio

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Maybe oot but could be possible to have something similar to DeleD palette in Lazarus components palette?
Something similar to 3DScene, 3DShapes, 3DLayers components available in Delphi?

Andrea

JuhaManninen

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Also, regarding releasing an executable without the code: Jeroen Commandeur (one of the original DeleD developers) straight-up asked me if "there was an executable we could try", in the thread I made on the DeleD forums, which would seem to directly imply that it wouldn't be a problem. (To be honest it's quite likely that he doesn't even remember what license DeleD CE specifically used, as he hasn't worked on it for years and is now focused on the web-based version.)
Jeroen Commandeur is allowed to switch the license of his own code to something else, but GPL sets the rules until he does so.
[Edit] Actually a new license would affect only future forks. Our (mine and yours) DeleD forks will be based on the GPL version forever.

Quote
So I actually probably will upload some test builds first, in the period leading up to when I upload the code.
That is a license violation without any ambiguity!
In fact the GPL is made around this one idea and purpose: to ensure that source code of a delivered SW remains available always. The original code and all code derived from it.
In your obsession to not make it available you are ready to go as far as violate the code's license. Why? I don't see any valid reason for your behavior. All the reasons I can think of are wicked and evil.
Do you think the code must be "ready" before you publish? But then, how can you publish an executable? It is not "ready" either.
Please explain. I really really really do not understand you.
If you need help with revision control tools, I am sure many people here are willing to help you.

Maybe oot but could be possible to have something similar to DeleD palette in Lazarus components palette?
Something similar to 3DScene, 3DShapes, 3DLayers components available in Delphi?
Yes it is out of topic. Please start a new thread. Explain there what exactly you meant. A new palette using 3D effects or some 3D components in the existing component palette?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 11:46:14 am by JuhaManninen »

BeniBela

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A thought crossed my mind.

Perhaps AkIra is just a chat bot. Someone experimenting with AI research.

marcov

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A thought crossed my mind.

Perhaps AkIra is just a chat bot. Someone experimenting with AI research.

Please keep it a bit constructive.  I agree with Bart.