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What do you think about reorganizing of Lazarus IDE?

No. I like old Delphi IDE style and I don't want any changes.
36 (46.8%)
Yes. I'd like Lazarus to looks like a modern IDE ( let's say, Visual Studio)
35 (45.5%)
I'm not smart enough to decide betwee these two choices.
6 (7.8%)

Total Members Voted: 75

Author Topic: What about a more modern IDE?  (Read 48447 times)

skalogryz

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2015, 08:10:06 pm »
Ooops, indeed => deleted (replaced by LiteZarus) ::)
the link brings to gitnub. but where's LiteZarus itself? is it Lazarus 4 Android module?
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skalogryz

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2015, 08:12:08 pm »
...did you have a look at CodeTyphon.
the wiki has been updated
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Fred vS

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2015, 08:13:54 pm »
Quote
the link brings to gitnub. but where's LiteZarus itself?

Fixed now  :)
I use Lazarus 1.8.0 32/64 and FPC 3.0.3 32/64 on Linux Mint Mate 17 32/64, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64 and Mac OS X Snow Leopard 32.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt, Carbon.

https://github.com/fredvs

skalogryz

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2015, 08:23:05 pm »
Works like a charm. Thank you!

As for modern IDE - found two Eclipse plugins But it felt more like grave digging. But maybe someone would like to pick projects up?!  (the wiki has been updated).

It is that a common problem of "modern IDE"s (actually any piece of software) - not just start it, but maintain it.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 08:31:06 pm by skalogryz »
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skalogryz

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2015, 08:34:53 pm »
FreeSparta makes it into Lazarus
added to the wiki. I thought FreeSparta project has been closed.
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Gosh

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2015, 08:50:37 pm »
about reorganizing the Lazarus IDE?

you should jump right on that, Gosh.

I am not against that. I'm ready to give contribution as much as circustances allows that.

Gosh

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2015, 09:07:10 pm »
I think that he is angry because the ide is not working for him like  he said in his other thread. So the main idea is not to imrprove lazarus just to say that is not working.

Yes, you're right. I'm angry because it is practically impossible to work wit Lazarus in my case.

But, this is not the main reason why I opened this topic. I have worked with many programing IDEs for a long period of time. Some things which I've seen in Lazarus (and elder Delphi versions) are absolutely less productive than things implemented in other IDEs.

Should we use this kind of environment established more than 20 years ago just because they looks like old Delphi IDE (which sounds cool to some IT talibans :) ) or we have to think about improvements? I am for improvements and for progress.

Lazarus have a good potential to become the best cross-platform developing environment. Why to miss this chance? Because of some guys who enjoy to live in Dark age? No.. 

BitBangerUSA

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2015, 09:14:41 pm »
about reorganizing the Lazarus IDE?

you should jump right on that, Gosh.

I am not against that. I'm ready to give contribution as much as circustances allows that.

well okay then.

at least one post spoke of the amount of work involved.

and given the tendency of programmers to underestimate how much time and effort will be required for a given task...

it may be that you can do something useful and productive with a few days work. good luck - seriously.
Lazarus Ver 1.4.0 FPC Ver 2.6.4 SVN 48774 32-bit
Windows 7 U 64-bit

Gosh

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2015, 09:15:17 pm »
Gosh, you must be in politics or the business of politics. Your so called poll wording is deliberately biased in order to achieve the results you want. Here, we call that push polling and lump it in with the rest of the dirty tricks.

 :D no... honestly, I hesitate politicians. I firstly started a new topic frustrated with some errors which I've seen truing to master Lazarus IDE and FP language. Afetr that I've seen a pool options and decided to add possibility to check opinion of other people what they thing about improvmenst of IDE design.

Gosh

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2015, 09:27:53 pm »

That is just a statement presented as a proposal with not concrete information about what it is that you want.

Quote
There you go again making statements with out any real value or data to back it up. Please describe your concept. What I see in an IDE and what you see are 2 different things what is that makes it easier to use for you? what do you want to see and why.

Quote
yeah I'm going to hold any comments until you have described what normal/abnormal, practical/impractical is for you and even then I reserve the right to ignore the thread.


I put two attachments inside a post here just to demonstrate my thoughts.



Quote
what is this delphi lite? where can I download it to take a look. at least to have an understanding of what you want to do.

You can see its IDE on the previous page. In general, it is a remastered (not legal) variant of original Delphi which offers excellent IDE and its size is less than 30 MB (without components which you can add separately and by your wish) 

It is possible to find them on some torrent sites or via Google.


Quote
Yeah you did, don't worry I said what I had to say I'll leave this thread to unfold and I'll even use any product that comes out of it to see what the fuss is about if anything comes out of it more than hot air that is.

You're obviously a little bit arrogant person and that's the only reason why I answered you on that way. It is much better to kindly discuss about some new features than to make a quarrel  :)

skalogryz

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2015, 09:39:24 pm »
:D no... honestly, I hesitate politicians.
Could you please choose on one of these three options:
A) I like the current stage of Lazarus as growing and promising free pascal IDE. I'm ready to use it for development.
B) I'd like to waste more time and efforts developing new IDE and/or features with questionable benefits and uncertain results
C) I'm not smart enough to decide between these two choices.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 09:42:41 pm by skalogryz »
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Gosh

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2015, 09:46:28 pm »
Gosh, did you have a look at CodeTyphon. It has the IDE which you probably like. It has a docked interface (much like the anchordockingdsgn package) but has additional changes so that the form-designer is also docked. I like that interface very much. It's very much modern Delphi-like. I think FreeSparta had/has it too and have hopes that the changes from the opensourcing of FreeSparta makes it into Lazarus (regarding the docking and form-designer-docking). The standard anchordockingdsgn does have some bugs and drawbacks and a stable docking solution would be welcome. However, I understand for the form-designer to be dockable there needs to some deep internal changes in the source of Lazarus-IDE itself too, so it will be a big patch.

Yes, I know for them but I think that Lazarus is much better choice  for the future. IMO Lazarus have a nice chance to become one of the best tools for multiplatform development. The main reason why I've chosen Lazarus was that I need to write some programs for Win, Linux and OSX. 

https://jonlennartaasenden.wordpress.com/2015/01/03/free-sparta-and-codetyphoon-violates-gpl/

Quote
I think you're completely wrong in asking it like this. It's like asking why we still haven't got flying cars. Some like the old interface. Others (like you) would prefer a docked one (the word modern is debatable). But since there goes a lot of work in creating a stable IDE, and I mean a LOT of work, you can't expect someone to put all his time in it. I could ask you to check out the code from CodeTyphon and FreeSparta and create a patch for a new docking-package (with form-designer docking). I can guarantee that it will take more than "a few days". I think you can more easily count weeks if not months of "full-time working" on this to get a somewhat stable version of the IDE you like.

I know that it is not "a few days" as I wrote but at least "a few months". I have a question for developers: what is more important, to have look'n'feel of old Delphi environment or to have more power inside of IDE?

Quote
(Saying others are stubborn and need to get on these changes... well... isn't really polite or productive)

The biggest possible respect for the guys who take part in Lazarus project. It wasn't my goal to offend anybody but to activate productive forces in a right direction.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 10:02:37 pm by Gosh »

marcov

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2015, 09:46:57 pm »
It is that a common problem of "modern IDE"s (actually any piece of software) - not just start it, but maintain it.

I think plugin architectures are fast becoming  a open source developer defence mechanism to keep the project focussed. Develop a plugin architecture just so you can say "but you can develop a plugin" if you don't like it, to keep it outside the door.

Don't take any care of any plugins except the ones you care about, and even move them back into the core IDE (and/or synchronize their releases), so that they are vastly superior, but yet present them as showcases. O:-)

So yes, we need dynamic loadable packages and the ability to create plugins out of tree!   >:D

rvk

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2015, 10:20:06 pm »
I have a question for developers: what is more important, to have look'n'feel of old Delphi environment or to have more power inside of IDE?
Probably more important of the two is more power inside the IDE. But that's not the problem. You need to look at ALL priorities inside the team... and the IDE is not that high on the list (with most of them).

Granted, a new (stable) docking-IDE would benefit Lazarus greatly. It might attract new developers. Could be more productive etc... but since this is all volunteer work there needs to be somebody leading this battle, and at the moment all battles are fought on different fronts. That's why I had some hope for the integration of the FreeSparta project.

I do understand what you tried to do (and did :)) with creating this poll and topic.
(I voted for the new IDE too  8-))

skalogryz

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Re: What about a more modern IDE?
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2015, 10:26:01 pm »
I think plugin architectures are fast becoming  a open source developer defence mechanism to keep the project focussed. Develop a plugin architecture just so you can say "but you can develop a plugin" if you don't like it, to keep it outside the door.
Well, yes. I don't see a problem here.

Example, from my experience. LeakView plugin was welcomed (and even taken over) by the team and is now the official plugin :) While Manual Docker is not welcomed. For obvious reasons of being too narrow. However it works for me and I'm using it (not relying on the next iteration of bugs in xxxxDocking module).

The end developer still has an option and control over what set of plugins are used.

Don't take any care of any plugins except the ones you care about, and even move them back into the core IDE (and/or synchronize their releases), so that they are vastly superior, but yet present them as showcases. O:-)
The team is interested to make IDE looks its best, right?
The compatibility with other plugins is only achieved through carefully maintained plugin API.

...and the ability to create plugins out of tree!   >:D
what does it mean?
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