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Author Topic: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?  (Read 23917 times)

ChrisR

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2018, 02:38:04 pm »
Like Trenatos, I have found the most recent Cocoa IDE to be pretty good (1.9 SVN 58330). Over the weekend, Dmitry updated the IDE o it can now copy/paste with other programs like web browsers. There are still a few rough edges, but it seems to be coming together. My sense is that if we as a community can start using the Cocoa IDE and build Cocoa apps, we can provide good bug reporting that will help the developers finish this up. If you have not tried the Cocoa IDE SVN recently, I suggest you give it another try.

cobata

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2018, 11:07:15 am »
Carbon died!

ERROR ITMS-90240: "Unsupported Architectures. Your executable contained the following disallowed architectures: '[i386 (in com.COBATA.XHTMLConstructor1Init.pkg/Payload/COBATA (X)HTML Constructor 1.0 Init.app/Contents/MacOS/COBATA(X)HTMLConstructor1.0Init)]'. New apps submitted to the Mac App Store must support 64-bit starting January 2018, and Mac app updates and existing apps must support 64-bit starting June 2018."

I wrote a "suggestion" to Apple that this is unacceptable and not loggical since the OS X 10.13.6 and Xcode 10 are still in beta - they will require/ impose to migrate to 64bit. Acctually, all the logic around the time, the OS version, etc is so subjective. MS tried to disallow Win32 APIs and this resulted in Desktop Bridge for Win32bit apps, because the store was empty.
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cobata

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2018, 01:35:08 pm »
https://support.apple.com/en-us/ht208436

"...At our Worldwide Developers Conference in 2017, Apple informed developers that macOS High Sierra would be the last version of macOS to run 32-bit apps without compromise."
...
"When will the 64-bit transition be complete?
The 64-bit transition for macOS and macOS apps is still underway, so final transition dates have not yet been established. But now is a good time to check with the software developer to see if 64-bit versions of your favorite titles are available."

High Sierra is current, ... versions still in beta, Xcode too...
And we need time, that time, we loss time and loss money, caused by this kind of jumps.
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cobata

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2018, 02:32:26 pm »
It's the response from Apple:
https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Carbon/Conceptual/Carbon64BitGuide/PortingTo64Bit/PortingTo64Bit.html

Is it resonable to be performed for Lazarus Carbon widget set?
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Thaddy

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2018, 02:43:54 pm »
Not at all. Look at the screenshot, that documentation is retired:
Most people that want to use threading should learn to patch their jeans first: use a needle.

Thaddy

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2018, 02:46:41 pm »
I really do not understand that some people can't read. 32 bit will be retired. Period. Gives me head-aches too, but I respect that information and won't develop for 32 bit on Apple.
Note this goes for ALL Apple platforms. They are moving away. But to some extend some support for older devices.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 03:24:29 pm by Thaddy »
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Trenatos

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2018, 04:01:34 pm »
It's pretty straight forward: 32bit is going away, long live 64bit.

It's being deprecated by the platform, so focus needs to be mainly on 64bit and getting Cocoa up to date (Which seems to be going very well).

Carbon is dead, Apple killed it, now they're burying it.

cobata

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2018, 04:09:28 pm »
Thaddy, you read "retired" and stopped :-)

On Cocoa widgetset I read, that the plans Cocoa to be stable are 2 years, starting this autumn... This blocks me and does not fit to my plans... But if it is possible Carbon to live "on systems" for 1-2 years, i.e. if it is easy (for 1-2 weeks or even a month work) to be compilable for 64 bits and it is not risky to break the functionalities - it is definitely reasonable to me... Because..., lets say that the Customer has no interest is this Carbon or Cacoa and what are the differences, and more often these differences are disliked. Also, related to the software testing, it is easier to test the more stable and tested software (with the Carbon interface).
It's software with Carbon and for Mac.

Trenatos, OK :-)
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Thaddy

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2018, 04:14:29 pm »
Thaddy, you read "retired" and stopped :-)

On Cocoa widgetset I read, that the plans Cocoa to be stable are 2 years, starting this autumn... This blocks me and does not fit to my plans... But if it is possible Carbon to live "on systems" for 1-2 years, i.e. if it is easy (for 1-2 weeks or even a month work) to be compilable for 64 bits and it is not risky to break the functionalities - it is definitely reasonable to me... Because..., lets say that the Customer has no interest is this Carbon or Cacoa and what are the differences, and more often these differences are disliked. Also, related to the software testing, it is easier to test the more stable and tested software (with the Carbon interface).
It's software with Carbon and for Mac.

Trenatos, OK :-)
What two years? since 2013,2014,2015? etc. READ!! Check dates!! <Ok, not really grumpy but still  >:D >:D>
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cobata

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2018, 04:56:40 pm »
The time to move to Cocoa was probably 5-6 years ago when there was still some air left in desktop app development. Microsoft was actually a bit late to the transition, moving Office on Mac to Cocoa in 2011 and going 64-bit only in 2016. The first commit to the Lazarus Cocoa widgetset was May 2008, so it certainly got off to the right start. My prediction this last winter was 1-2 years for a stable Cocoa widgetset for LCL.

Cocoa will start to shine in no time.

In the absence of enough free time as of this moment, I cannot do any significant progress on Cocoa.
(the next "Cocoa session" for me might be open in October this year)
It's writen on june 2018!
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cobata

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2018, 05:12:47 pm »
Actually, the changes in Cocoa are not taken from the Trunk into the official release 1.8.4 since 2017 (please, don't want from me to search from where i read it :-)), but you want to develop in Cocoa AND to be more active on contributions :-D
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Thaddy

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2018, 05:25:32 pm »
If you want to be stubborn be an Ass (the animal, not you).
You can also call the Apple developer support line. Or email...
Same answer... <Now I am really grumpy  >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >
Stop this thread
Freeze it.

[edit]
I promised to be careful with grumpy this year,but sheer..... 8-)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 05:28:25 pm by Thaddy »
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skalogryz

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2018, 07:07:08 pm »
Anyone to try trunk?
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Thaddy

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2018, 10:37:51 pm »
Anyone to try trunk?
Guess who?.... Don't get your hopes up. Apple 32 bit is like Windows 95.... 8-) 8-)
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Trenatos

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Re: How future "safe" is Carbon - anyone knows?
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2018, 10:44:01 pm »
I just tried building Laz with trunk (x64 Cocoa), and it won't compile  :P

Hangs on pseudoterminaldlg.