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Author Topic: fpGUI x wxWidgets  (Read 27317 times)

valdir.marcos

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fpGUI x wxWidgets
« on: April 13, 2014, 10:39:31 pm »
fpGUI is for Free Pascal the same as wxWidgets is to C++?
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
https://www.wxwidgets.org/

marcov

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2014, 09:27:33 am »
Seems that wxwidgets is now more going into native controls:
(from the site:)

"wxWidgets gives applications a truly native look and feel because it uses the platform's native API rather than emulating the GUI. It's also extensive, free, open-source and mature"

So no, the default Lazarus/LCL is more wxwidgets then philosophy wise, since it also uses native widgets as much as possible, while fpgui is more owner drawn.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 10:07:12 am by marcov »

dieselnutjob

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2014, 12:05:32 pm »
For me the big advantage of fpGUI is that I have customers who run Linux, and it means that I don't have to worry whether they have qt or gtk installed.

It also turns out that in Windows that the resultant exe is smaller and I think uses less resources.

Unfortunately I have had to maintain an LCL version for my Mac OSX customers.

marcov

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2014, 12:09:30 pm »
For me the big advantage of fpGUI is that I have customers who run Linux, and it means that I don't have to worry whether they have qt or gtk installed.

I haven't seen a Linux distro that can't with one or two clicks install both of them. But binary distribution on Linux is hard, I admit that, but never really saw much
advantage in fpgui with that. And fpgui has too many little usability issues.

Quote
It also turns out that in Windows that the resultant exe is smaller and I think uses less resources.

Did you actually found cases where that was limiting ?  Half of the machines sold nowadays have way more than 4GB, which is already crazy amount of space for a win32 (even LCL) binary.

Personally, when I still did ownerdrawn stuff, customers were always complaining about it not being a proper windows application.

Quote
Unfortunately I have had to maintain an LCL version for my Mac OSX customers.

benohb

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2014, 01:30:19 pm »
Quote
I haven't seen a Linux distro that can't with one or two clicks install both of them. But binary distribution on Linux is hard, I admit that, but never really saw muchadvantage in fpgui with that. And fpgui has too many little usability issues.





GTK + QT there is no respect API and  binary compatible...


Fred vS

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2014, 02:17:18 pm »
Quote
And fpgui has too many little usability issues.

Hum, could you give us some examples of that "many little usability issues" ?

Thanks
I use Lazarus 2.0.6 32/64 and FPC 3.2.0 32/64 on Debian 10.2 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64 and Mac OS X Snow Leopard 32.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt, Carbon.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

korba812

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2014, 02:30:30 pm »
Quote
Hum, could you give us some examples of that "many little usability issues" ?
for example:
http://sourceforge.net/p/fpgui/bugs/15/

Fred vS

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2014, 03:05:02 pm »
Quote
Quote

    Hum, could you give us some examples of that "many little usability issues" ?

for example:
http://sourceforge.net/p/fpgui/bugs/15/

That was fixed 3 weeks ago, =>
https://github.com/graemeg/fpGUI/issues/12

Other example ?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 03:09:57 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.0.6 32/64 and FPC 3.2.0 32/64 on Debian 10.2 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64 and Mac OS X Snow Leopard 32.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt, Carbon.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

korba812

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2014, 03:19:44 pm »
Quote
That was fixed 3 weeks ago
It is not. Please check the sample project attached to issue.

marcov

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2014, 03:25:08 pm »
Quote
And fpgui has too many little usability issues.
Hum, could you give us some examples of that "many little usability issues" ?

A Windows application had a weird font, and didn't respect common keyboard navigation, and didn't follow theming.


Fred vS

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2014, 03:27:40 pm »
Quote
It is not. Please check the sample project attached to issue.

Ok and sorry so.

PS: Im not sure that Graeme follows sf-bug issues.
But im sure he will read and answer if you post it to https://github.com/graemeg/fpGUI/issues/
I use Lazarus 2.0.6 32/64 and FPC 3.2.0 32/64 on Debian 10.2 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64 and Mac OS X Snow Leopard 32.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt, Carbon.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

Fred vS

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2014, 03:36:57 pm »
Quote
A Windows application had a weird font
I do not understand, you may choose the font used so if you do not like the default one, choose a other...

Quote
and didn't respect common keyboard navigation
Hum, could you explain better, i do not find any keyboard problem (keyboard fr, pt, es and en tested).
 
Quote
and didn't follow theming.
Are you taking about Windows theme ?  If yes, that is true but you may choose a fpGUI Windows-theme instead who will do the job...

« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 03:46:55 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.0.6 32/64 and FPC 3.2.0 32/64 on Debian 10.2 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64 and Mac OS X Snow Leopard 32.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt, Carbon.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

marcov

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2014, 03:45:16 pm »
Quote
A Windows application had a weird font
I do not understand, you may choose the font used so if you do not like the default one, choose a other...

It should take the default system font from the theme.

Quote
Quote
and didn't respect common keyboard navigation
Hum, could you explain better, i do not find any keyboard problem (keyboard fr, pt. es and en tested).

IIRC tabbing through the controls, shifttabbing through tabs of a pagecontrol etc. Not much worked as it should in a normal windows application, making it instantly recognizable as non native, and very annoying for a keyboard centric user such as me.

Quote
Quote
and didn't follow theming.
Are you taking about Windows theme ?  If yes, that is true but you may choose a fpGUI Windows-theme instead who will do the job...
[/quote]

Everything can be done with enough work, to the point that you are building your own widgetset and using the owner drawn one as a primitive.

But that is the problem with ownerdrawn systems. Yes they are minimal, yes they have total control, but nothing comes for free, and except for the most popular ones, the finish is generally rough.  A user simply having a different theme from you already makes you want to run for the hills.

Fred vS

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2014, 11:09:38 pm »
Quote
Yes they are minimal, yes they have total control, but nothing comes for free, and except for the most popular ones, the finish is generally rough.
Hum, in my opinion, with total control you may do everything.
For example, Dibo has created a fpGUI style who looks inside the system-config, retrieve the current colors used by the system-style (working for X11 and gdi) and apply it for each widget.

Quote
It should take the default system font from the theme.
If it is possible for system-theme-color, it is for system-theme-fonts too.    ;)

Quote
IIRC tabbing through the controls, shifttabbing through tabs of a pagecontrol etc. Not much worked as it should in a normal windows application, making it instantly recognizable as non native, and very annoying for a keyboard centric user such as me.
Have you send a bug report for that ? Sure that Graeme has the solution... :-X

« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 11:50:13 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.0.6 32/64 and FPC 3.2.0 32/64 on Debian 10.2 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64 and Mac OS X Snow Leopard 32.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt, Carbon.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

dieselnutjob

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Re: fpGUI x wxWidgets
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2014, 11:20:36 pm »
Quote
Did you actually found cases where that was limiting ?  Half of the machines sold nowadays have way more than 4GB, which is already crazy amount of space for a win32 (even LCL) binary.

Yes. Many of my customers do not want to use a PC at all and keep asking for an iPad app.  When I tell them that they can use any old junk laptop off of ebay with Windows 2000 up it helps.  I had one ask me if I could support Windows 98 a few months back.

I have customers with EEEPC 701s which are useful as they have an SSD so no moving parts.  An early 701 only has a 2G harddrive let alone 4G of RAM.  Some of them will be using really lean window managers and will not appreciate me forcing them to install Qt or GTK.

Personally I develop on a Dell D630 as it is one of the more powerful laptops that still has a real RS232 port, which I need.  The USB adaptors really are not good enough for what I do.

Also the program is downloaded over the Internet so the smaller it is the better.  I have customers in places with very poor Internet connections.  At some point I may have a security problem and need to force customers to update, I will not be popular if this happens when a customer is using their mobile phone as an Internet connection and just wants to get the job done.

Smaller, faster, leaner, more backwards compatible, no dependencies on other libraries.  This is what I need and I think fpgui does the job.  I really appreciate those who made the effort to develop it.

 

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