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Author Topic: I do not like ^  (Read 16683 times)

Fred vS

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I do not like ^
« on: November 17, 2012, 02:33:07 am »
It is a message for the High Authorities of the Pascal Academy.

I have a great respect for your language, but would it not time to take it completely ? Be brave and waive these legacies competitors.

Please, forget:
^variable
pointer^
@variable
(All are terrorizing our children)
 
and adopt:
DeRefPtr(variable)
RefPtr(pointer)
PtrtoVal(variable)
(Who are much more "Pascally").

Here example of "mixed" Official Pascal code (given by Mr Blaazen)

Code: [Select]
VAR W : Word;
    P : ^Word;

BEGIN
   W:=10;
   P:=@W;
   WriteLn(P^);
   W:=30;
   WriteLn(P^);
   P^:=80;
   WriteLn(W);
END.


and here the same code in "real" Pascal mood :

DeRefPtr(var) ----> ^var;
RefPtr(ptr) ----> ptr^ ;
PtrtoVal(var) ---->  @var ;

Code: [Select]
VAR W : Word;
    P : DeRefPtr(Word);

BEGIN
   W:=10;
   P:=PtrtoVal(W);
   WriteLn(RefPtr(P));
   W:=30;
   WriteLn(RefPtr(P));
 RefPtr(P):=80;
   WriteLn(W);
END.


Your obedient servant.

Fred vS
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 01:58:02 pm by Fred vS »
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Leledumbo

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2012, 04:04:38 am »
Read this, Niklaus Wirth never invented Pascal with caret as the pointer dereference operator, it's our current keyboard that doesn't have the required symbol. And for you, symbolphobians, please stop doing something silly regarding the symbol. You have triangles everywhere: boomerang, underwear, arrows, etc. all have nothing to do with terrorism.

taazz

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 04:29:33 am »
It is not a literal terrorism as in bobs and suicide bombers it was more like "terror from beyond" "nightmare on elm street" or "chainsaw" type of thing.
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Fred vS

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 05:52:48 am »
@ Leleldumbo
Quote
Read this,

Very clear, maybe the clearest explanation of Pascal concept i have read.
This man is genius.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 05:54:31 am by Fred vS »
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User137

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 08:06:08 am »
The symbol ^ is fine, but i think i have to agree with Delphi's philosophy with it. When i have pointer to a class or record variable, i shouldn't need to use:
recordVarPtr^.Property but just recordVarPtr.Property
Because there is no other possible outcome from it than writing it with just dot. All i can see is that it makes it clear that we are dealing with pointed value. Pointer itself is just a memory address, there's no mistaking the dot usage for meaning the value only.

Leledumbo

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2012, 08:29:22 am »
Quote
The symbol ^ is fine, but i think i have to agree with Delphi's philosophy with it. When i have pointer to a class or record variable, i shouldn't need to use:
recordVarPtr^.Property but just recordVarPtr.Property
Delphi and TP already do that, so does their corresponding compatibility mode in Free Pascal (but AFAIK only if they're accessed as parameters).

anis2505

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 09:57:59 am »
Hi,

this symbol is annoying. to me my keyboard is AZERTY and it's a French layout, to type the ^ I have to press it twice which produce ^^ and the I delete one of them. This is because this symbol not usually used in French only for some words like  être (to be in English).

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eny

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2012, 10:25:51 am »
this symbol is annoying. to me my keyboard is AZERTY and it's a French layout, to type the ^ I have to press it twice which produce ^^ and the I delete one of them
Press ^ space...
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anis2505

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2012, 10:31:02 am »
this symbol is annoying. to me my keyboard is AZERTY and it's a French layout, to type the ^ I have to press it twice which produce ^^ and the I delete one of them
Press ^ space...

Thanks  :)
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I say {a good example is worth a thousand words}

Fred vS

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2012, 03:34:51 pm »
Quote
is annoying. to me my keyboard is AZERTY

Mine too  :-X.

By the way, i will not be against to change the symbol to point to a value  @variable  (who, for me, is property of internet) with something like  PtrtoVal(variable).

PS: I do not have absolutely nothing against symbols, it is just that, for me, using that kind of symbol is more in the  "C" mood than in Pascal.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 03:42:25 pm by Fred vS »
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Blaazen

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2012, 03:46:56 pm »
Quote
By the way, i will not be against to change the symbol to point to a value @ ...
You cannot replace ^ with @ .
Example:
Code: [Select]
VAR W : Word;
    P : ^Word;

BEGIN
   W:=10;
   P:=@W;
   WriteLn(P^);
   W:=30;
   WriteLn(P^);
   P^:=80;
   WriteLn(W);
END.
Example is taken from here: http://www.friends-of-fpc.org/articles/1040517/b/
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Leledumbo

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2012, 03:50:40 pm »
Quote
By the way, i will not be against to change the symbol to point to a value  @variable  (who, for me, is property of internet) with something like  PtrtoVal(variable).
@ is already an "address of" operator, which is read naturally: @ is read "at", so @somevar reads "at somevar" which means the address of somevar. beautifully chosen, IMO.

Fred vS

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2012, 04:02:59 pm »
@ Blaazen

DeRefPtr(var) :=  ^var;
RefPtr(ptr)  := ptr^ ;
PtrtoVal(var) := @var ;


Code: [Select]
VAR W : Word;
    P : DeRefPtr(Word);

BEGIN
   W:=10;
   P:=PtrtoVal(W);
   WriteLn( RefPtr(P));
   W:=30;
   WriteLn(RefPtr(P));
 RefPtr(P):=80;
   WriteLn(W);
END.

PS : It is for the game, im happy with the existing convention, it is only a idea in the air...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 04:14:22 pm by Fred vS »
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Fred vS

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2012, 04:21:07 pm »
PS 2 @ Blaazen.

It seams that the comprehension of that symbols are difficult to interpret not only by humans.
All the translator from C to Pascal or Pascal to C that i have tested have problems with negotiation with this symbols while translation...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 04:22:47 pm by Fred vS »
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BigChimp

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Re: I do not like ^
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2012, 04:29:06 pm »
You can tell a person is integrated into a programming language when he starts making suggestion about how it should be changed.
You can tell a person has been using the language forever when he says to people making thos suggestions that there's a good reason why the original way was chosen.

Just joking ;)
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