LazPaint Translations

[lainz]

Try to use constant strings instead resource strings, and in Labels / Forms use empty captions '' or 'notranslate' and fill them on runtime.

That's interesting. Where is this notranslate option?

There's no option

I say:

const
  rsLabel1 = 'Label1'; >> this is not added in the .po file

resourcestring
  rsLabel1 = 'Label1';

Form.Label1.Caption = 'notranslate' or '' (empty) >> this in the IDE, Object Inspector.

So when you create the form add:

Form.Label1.Caption := rsLabel1;

And it will be not translated.

In the .po file Form.Label1.Caption will say 'notranslate' so you can advise the translators that doesn't need to translate that things.
Also if they translate those will not be used because you will assign a constant string OnCreate.

[circular]

I understand. It's just that I don't like the idea that the interface is not readable in design mode.

[circular]

Dutsch translation is online, so that LazPaint 5.6 will automatically download it.

Here is the update list for po files to be translated :
lazpaint.ar.po : 75
lazpaint.cs.po : 157
lazpaint.de.po : 0 (waiting to be validated or corrected by billyraybones)
lazpaint.es.po : 14
lazpaint.ja.po : 111
lazpaint.po : 458
lazpaint.ru.po : 77
lazpaint.sv.po : 107

@billyraybones:
If there are a few changes, you can explain it here, instead of sending the entire file.

[lainz]

Ok.

Just add the constant strings and you're done.
The translators will translate that automatically generated strings but it will don't affect LazPaint.

[lainz]

Attached translation.

Hey you readed my mind! I was thinking on 'Shaded map' some days ago to add to the 'NoiseBWA' filter in BCFilters to create a metallic thing!!

Attached a picture.

Is basically:
- BCFilters.NoiseBWA
- LazPaint.Shaded map
- LazPaint.set background remove alpha
- Smooth

Attached.. well download, because the Attachments does not works for me.

Download translation: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2434440/lazpaint.es.7z

Picture: http://www.subirimagenes.com/imagen-metalic-8360909.html

[circular]

Thanks for your translation. It's online too.

Hey you readed my mind! I was thinking on 'Shaded map' some days ago to add to the 'NoiseBWA' filter in BCFilters to create a metallic thing!!

I don't really understand. We thought of the same thing?

Is basically:
- BCFilters.NoiseBWA
- LazPaint.Shaded map
- LazPaint.set background remove alpha
- Smooth

Good idea.
Maybe you can add blur and normalize after noise, in order to choose the size of the grain.

You may generate noise in LazPaint using apply function with random value.

[lainz]

Thanks for your translation. It's online too.

Hey you readed my mind! I was thinking on 'Shaded map' some days ago to add to the 'NoiseBWA' filter in BCFilters to create a metallic thing!!

I don't really understand. We thought of the same thing?

Is basically:
- BCFilters.NoiseBWA
- LazPaint.Shaded map
- LazPaint.set background remove alpha
- Smooth

Good idea.
Maybe you can add blur and normalize after noise, in order to choose the size of the grain.

You may generate noise in LazPaint using apply function with random value.

I don't know, at least I think on the resulting image some days ago, and your filter fits exactly.
I thought on using something like phong shading to create the image, but not tried nothing.

I'll try the apply function.

[circular]

Oh ok, I understand.

About translations, I'm sorry if I made some people uncomfortable. That's not my intention.

I'm just reminding you people of the cruel reality, that users of LazPaint may not understand english, and that in order to make it simple, there can be only one update for each language after the software is released, so that I'd rather put translation files that are the most translated possible.

Of course, that's not mandatory, if you say that you just don't find how to translate it, or that you are not motivated to find all translations, that's ok.

Some translations may sound ridiculous in the first place, because we always heard it in english, but translating it anyway preserves your language, which is good thing, right?

It does not need to be that exact same words, but to express the idea.

[lainz]

Of course, I've no problem the new translations does not contain a lot of text, so updating is easy, at least for me that I've already translated something Maybe it's harder to start a new translation..

[BigChimp]

I'm just reminding you people of the cruel reality, that users of LazPaint may not understand english, and that in order to make it simple, there can be only one update for each language after the software is released, so that I'd rather put translation files that are the most translated possible.

Of course, that's not mandatory, if you say that you just don't find how to translate it, or that you are not motivated to find all translations, that's ok.

Some translations may sound ridiculous in the first place, because we always heard it in english, but translating it anyway preserves your language, which is good thing, right?

It does not need to be that exact same words, but to express the idea.

Well... I partly agree A lot of English IT terms are e.g. used when speaking Dutch, sometimes with Dutch alternatives, sometimes not.

Using industry-standard terms helps IMO; inventing your own terms requires the users to mentally translate the concepts... even if it the Lazpaint concept is a nice word in their own language.

An example in English that I have my doubts on (but note I'm a graphics newbie, so I may be completely wrong):
altitude map=> could this be height map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heightmap

I also think the translator should be the one who gets to decide what is the suitable word to use rather than the program author if he's not a native speaker... (given that the translator really understands what concepts are meant, which in e.g. my case is not so)

Anyway, I don't want to look for a fight or something, I'm happy enough translating Lazpaint and just wanted to voice my opinion;)

[circular]

We're not in a software company.

Using industry-standard terms helps IMO;

It's not an issue of industry-standard terms, but of translation. Hence the question about using untranslated terms. If you tell me that in your langage, this term is never translated, then ok, it's validated. If you tell me that you don't know so you will just let the term untranslated, well, that's not what I would consider as validated.

inventing your own terms requires the users to mentally translate the concepts... even if it the Lazpaint concept is a nice word in their own language.

This is a miror effect. Lazpaint is a proper noun, so it's not a valid example. Same thing for example apply to ClearType.

An example in English that I have my doubts on (but note I'm a graphics newbie, so I may be completely wrong):
altitude map=> could this be height map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heightmap

In fact, you're trying to argue that you're right by demonstrating that I'm wrong. And it doesn't prove your point at all, because for example the german version of it is Höhenfeld, which is translated.

In fact, it's not an error, I did it on purpose, to avoid the confusion with the height of the bitmap.

I also think the translator should be the one who gets to decide what is the suitable word to use rather than the program author if he's not a native speaker...

That's why I don't do the translations myself. And also because it takes some time. I published your translation with "shaded map" not translated because you are the authority regarding dutsch translation. Yes, you are responsible for it because nobody else is, just like I am responsible for LazPaint because nobody else is. You can put anything you want in the translation, which does not mean that you must write nonsense!

For german translation, it's a bit more complicated, because there are in fact three people involved. Another translator told me that the word "Licht" should be changed to "Helligkeit" but at the same time, there is not much room for the word. Finally I added some code so that if the translation is too long, the text is rearranged to fit, and at the same time, the word "Licht" is used anyway.

If we want to have the best german translation possible, let's be consistent and try to translate "Shaded map" too. But of course, this effort is not mandatory, we are free not to translate something, we're not paid for it, and users can look on the internet for the meaning of the words if they don't understand it.

(given that the translator really understands what concepts are meant, which in e.g. my case is not so)

Anyway, I don't want to look for a fight or something, I'm happy enough translating Lazpaint and just wanted to voice my opinion;)

I'm not interested in fighting either.

I conclude that your reaction comes from the fact that you are uncertain about the meaning of the terms.

[BigChimp]

Using industry-standard terms helps IMO; inventing your own terms requires the users to mentally translate the concepts... even if it the Lazpaint concept is a nice word in their own language.

Lazpaint is a proper noun, so it's not a valid example. Same thing for example apply to ClearType.

Sorry, I was unclear, I didn't mean the word "Lazpaint" itself, but the word Lazpaint uses to denote an object/idea/concept. (E.g. altitude map)

In fact, you're trying to argue that you're right by demonstrating that I'm wrong. And it doesn't prove your point at all, because for example the german version of it is Höhenfeld, which is translated.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say: my point was it's better to use well known terms for concepts. I wasn't specifically talking about translations, I was talking about using industry terms. I picked an English example because a Dutch example may not be so well understood

In fact, it's not an error, I did it on purpose, to avoid the confusion with the height of the bitmap.

As I said, I'm not an expert, and haven't run LazPaint more than a couple of minutes, so that may be a very valid reason.

I also think the translator should be the one who gets to decide what is the suitable word to use rather than the program author if he's not a native speaker...

That's why I don't do the translations myself. And also because it takes some time. I published your translation with "shaded map" not translated because you are the authority regarding dutsch translation. Yes, you are responsible for it because nobody else is, just like I am responsible for LazPaint because nobody else is.

I like somebody who clearly defines responsibilities... especially if they match my own viewpoints...

For german translation, it's a bit more complicated, because there are in fact three people involved. Another translator told me that the word "Licht" should be changed to "Helligkeit" but at the same time, there is not much room for the word. Finally I added some code so that if the translation is too long, the text is rearranged to fit.

And AFAIK "Helligkeit" translates back to "brightness"... but that's a bit beside the point.

If we want to have the best german translation possible, let's be consistent and try to translate "Shaded map" too.

As the Germans translate a lot (much more than the Dutch) it is very likely there is an industry standard German term for "shaded map", so yes, I would agree.

But of course, this effort is not mandatory, we are free not to translate something, we're not paid for it, and users can look on the internet for the meaning of the words if they don't understand it.

Yep. I wish we would get some actual users telling us how they feel about the translation!

I'm not interested in fighting either.

Good - no offense meant and none taken.

I conclude that your reaction comes from the fact that you are uncertain about the meaning of the terms.

I don't really think so. As I said, I looked up industry terms in the competition's product and I asked earlier in this thread when I didn't understand something.
The point I was trying to make is that:
1. In general: it's better to use industry standard terms than new terms (specific to Lazpaint only). Of course, you're responsible for the program and terminology, I can only suggest
2. In translation: sometimes these industry standard terms are the English terms, e.g. in Dutch: not translating "Phong shading"... haven't looked if I actually followed that, so no flames please

Hope this clears up what I tried to say. If not... I think we agree on the important points anyway

[circular]

Alright.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say: my point was it's better to use well known terms for concepts. I wasn't specifically talking about translations, I was talking about using industry terms. I picked an English example because a Dutch example may not be so well understood

Alright.

In fact, it's not an error, I did it on purpose, to avoid the confusion with the height of the bitmap.

As I said, I'm not an expert, and haven't run LazPaint more than a couple of minutes, so that may be a very valid reason.

I don't know, but it's just that I don't like these kind of confusion. I suppose it comes from my mathematical background.

I like somebody who clearly defines responsibilities... especially if they match my own viewpoints...

lol
Well, it's not obvious with opensource software when there is no official leading. Maybe it's a weekness. At the same time, we are all free to participate if we want, so I don't find any legitimacy in defining those responsabilities. So they come up with the presence of people and their involvement.

For german translation, it's a bit more complicated, because there are in fact three people involved. Another translator told me that the word "Licht" should be changed to "Helligkeit" but at the same time, there is not much room for the word. Finally I added some code so that if the translation is too long, the text is rearranged to fit.

And AFAIK "Helligkeit" translates back to "brightness"... but that's a bit beside the point.

It's to illustrate that I have to manage three translators (including me because I speak a little bit german), and that translation issues involves some coding for me. So I understand that translators may not want to spend time in translations, but I may not want to spend time in coding either.

As the Germans translate a lot (much more than the Dutch) it is very likely there is an industry standard German term for "shaded map", so yes, I would agree.

There is "Phong-Beleuchtungsmodell" and "Höhenfeld" in wikipedia.

Yep. I wish we would get some actual users telling us how they feel about the translation!

Yes. There is not much feedback. At the same time, feedback means that we read it and take it into account, so it means having spare time.

1. In general: it's better to use industry standard terms than new terms (specific to Lazpaint only). Of course, you're responsible for the program and terminology, I can only suggest

I agree with that, except to the extent that if I prefer some word for some reason, I will happily tread on industry standard terms. In fact, you're not only suggesting, because you can apply this view to your translation anyway.

2. In translation: sometimes these industry standard terms are the English terms, e.g. in Dutch: not translating "Phong shading"... haven't looked if I actually followed that, so no flames please

Oh afraid of inferno. Don't be, as far as I am concerned, it does not exist.

Hope this clears up what I tried to say. If not... I think we agree on the important points anyway

Yes, this was useful to take about that.

[BigChimp]

All good then...

I opened another thread to ask for feedback on translations.
Yes, implementing suggestions etc will take time - at the same time, as you said, we're all volunteers, so we're the ones that decide when we'll spend time on it...

[circular]

Yep.