Lazarus

Programming => General => Topic started by: tverweij on May 17, 2018, 10:16:13 am

Title: Leaving for Oxygene
Post by: tverweij on May 17, 2018, 10:16:13 am
The last months, after I decided to leave VB, I have tested several languages.
First was the choice of what language - and because of my previous (nineties) experience with Delphi, the choice became Object Pascal.

The first I tested was Delphi.
This one did not pass because the EDI felt like it didn't enter the new millennium yet.

The second was FPC.
This one did not pass because the IDE was still not out of the eighties (text based).

The third was OmniPascal with FPC.
Nice, but again the IDE... Visual studio code doesn't feel nice to work in on a daily basis.

The fourth was Lazarus wit FPC.
It felt good. Nice IDE, works fast - good to be working with.
But no support at all (if you want something, you have to do it yourself).

And now I tested Oxygen.
Superior IDE (Choice between Visual Studio for inter-language projects where I can reuse my VB DLL's and Water - there own IDE)
Simple to build Android, IOS, Windows, Mac and Linux applications.
Really good support (I filed a bug and it was solved the same day, I filed a wish and it is available in the next version)

So the choice has been made.
Lazarus is a good product, but the support sucks, and therefor I am leaving for Remobjects Oxigen.

[edit]
I was looking for a strict language, case insensitive and without the {} (I really hate them). - This  lead to Object Pascal.
And it should have the possibility to build for Windows, Ios and Android. - All tested environments can do this.
And if possible - able to use my VB.Net dll's; I have 10 year+ reusable code. - Oxygen was the only one that can do this (of the above).
[end edit]
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: wp on May 17, 2018, 10:56:31 am
The fourth was Lazarus wit FPC.[...] But no support at all
A slap in the face of all the devs and of everybody who answers questions here in the forum and mailing list. In fact I have never seen any commercial product which gave better support, most of my bugs reported were fixed within several days, sometimes even within minutes.

(if you want something, you have to do it yourself).
With commercial products you cannot even do it yourself.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: tr_escape on May 17, 2018, 11:02:06 am
Ok.

Take care of yourself and your projects.

But I just wondering how many times will you get free support from any company?

Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: tverweij on May 17, 2018, 11:10:27 am
Quote
With commercial products you cannot even do it yourself.
And with a free product I can not even pay to get it done.

Quote
But I just wondering how many times will you get free support from any company?
As you can see from the list (starting with Delphi), I was never looking for a free product or free support - I was looking for the best combination of IDE and support.
I am a commercial programmer (meaning I live from it), so support is one of the most important things, and it doesn't have to be free.

Maybe the best things in life are free, but it seems that the best things in professional life aren't.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: JernejL on May 17, 2018, 11:19:59 am
I don't really see much point in this thread you have made or what could possibly be its purpose, but in any case.. goodbye, have fun, we'll be here and making lazarus better :)
 
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: HeavyUser on May 17, 2018, 11:36:16 am
Quote
With commercial products you cannot even do it yourself.
And with a free product I can not even pay to get it done.

Quote
But I just wondering how many times will you get free support from any company?
As you can see from the list (starting with Delphi), I was never looking for a free product or free support - I was looking for the best combination of IDE and support.
I am a commercial programmer (meaning I live from it), so support is one of the most important things, and it doesn't have to be free.

Maybe the best things in life are free, but it seems that the best things in professional life aren't.
that's a common misconception nothing in life is free. To the point, can you point me to your questions that did not got answered? I'd like to see where is the friction.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: Handoko on May 17, 2018, 11:40:52 am
And now I tested Oxygen.
Superior IDE (Choice between Visual Studio for inter-language projects where I can reuse my VB DLL's and Water - there own IDE)
Simple to build Android, IOS, Windows, Mac and Linux applications.
Really good support (I filed a bug and it was solved the same day, I filed a wish and it is available in the next version)

Glad to hear you finally found the tools that suits your needs.

Windows, Linux, Android + good support sounds like the product that I should try. I checked its website, the prices are not hobbyist friendly. But the worst is they use .net/mono, which is a big no for me.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: JD on May 17, 2018, 12:01:03 pm
And now I tested Oxygen.
Superior IDE (Choice between Visual Studio for inter-language projects where I can reuse my VB DLL's and Water - there own IDE)
Simple to build Android, IOS, Windows, Mac and Linux applications.
Really good support (I filed a bug and it was solved the same day, I filed a wish and it is available in the next version)

So the choice has been made.
Lazarus is a good product, but the support sucks, and therefor I am leaving for Remobjects Oxigen.

That is fine. I've used VB, VBA and Delphi in the past. I currently use several IDEs now: Lazarus, Eclipse and IDEs for R and Python.

As long as it works for you that is fine. I've had wonderful support from the Lazarus community over the years and since I know that it is an open source project where volunteers offer their time and experience for free, I can't complain about the quickness of responses.

I also know that you can PM some of the experts if you are looking for something in their area of expertise:

wp: TAChart, Visual Planit and fpspreadsheet
GetMem, LuizAmerico: VirtualTreeView
DonAlberto: fpcupdeluxe, Android development, mORMot
RemyLebeau: Indy
Lainz, circular: BGRA controls and general graphics
Thaddy, marcov, Juha and some others: general programming questions
Me: Databases, SQL

There are many others too numerous to mention.

This does not mean that these people cannot reply to questions in other areas, it is just an indicator of where to find help if you are in a hurry.  :D :D

Cheers,

JD
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: ccrause on May 17, 2018, 12:06:31 pm
So the choice has been made.
Lazarus is a good product, but the support sucks, and therefor I am leaving for Remobjects Oxigen.
It seems that your requirements and what was offered by FPC + Lazarus didn't match up.  Good luck with your next choice.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: md9projeto on May 17, 2018, 12:42:58 pm
I really like REm Objects, In fact I was a big promoter between 2002 and 2004 when the company was not very well know.
Its a good option if you want to go native.
If you want to do WEb Apps,and hybrids,IW17 is the way to go(and they have plans for Lazarus)
But I think Lazarus is doing well with the few resources it has.
Brazil is under its worst financial crisis ever, I was not involved with coding from 2008 to 2015,So I left a lot of Lazarus history.
But during this time I have donated to some projects,both me,and the companies I worked for.
I don know if its your case,but people pays 3500 on Delphi,but don t contribute with u$200 dollars for a open source project.
I think two things are slowing down Lazarus.
First-There a re thousands of well succeed companies who don't want to leave object Pascal,because they have millions invested in it,and because they can get the work done with anything else(DElphi and Lazarus are still the best tool for those who believe in datacentric rather than domain model approach),but they dont want to state this,they dont want to get involved with it.
It like going to the supermarket with slippers.
SO basically, if someone can glue fpc/Lazzarus with those that have economical interest in it,it would help a lot.
I still don know what Iḿ going to do in the future,but If Iḿ going to use Lazarus,Iĺl do the same noise I did for REm Objects, and IW17.
Second,Lazarus is a bad name,Simple as that,excuse me for being so direct.
It means something that was once dead and came to live again,it would be bad for a car,or a refrigerator,but its even worst for a computer related technology, people want to be related to new things,fresh,fast,fun.pleasure ideas,its marketing.
Maybe we the programmers dont take it in consideration(At least consciously),but many companies wont adopt it if they dont think its cool, it affects even DElphi where the whole propaganda says its old fashioned.
Something like FEPC-Fast environment for Pascal Coding,or anything like that.

Marcello
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: marcov on May 17, 2018, 01:42:15 pm
If I look through the original posters questions, I don't see many concrete question, just project direction and documentation. One can wonder if Lazarus ever had a fair chance.

That said, I myself still use Delphi in the office simply because the state of debugging on Windows. VCL and Windows only, though parts of the codebase have been used for Lazarus/FPC based Linux serverproducts.

As for Oxygene, I never saw the attraction. Both the language premise (you buy into a language maintained by one niche player, and the language is mostly a .NET creature with limited extras), and the concept of one toolchain for everything.

With a crossplatform abstraction, the Mobile targets require constant updates, and one should wonder if using the same language/libs is really worth it.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: sam707 on May 17, 2018, 03:44:36 pm
this post is nonsense about the DIY (do it yourself)

simply because DIY IS THE BASIC PHILOSOPHY OF TRUE PROGRAMMERS AND THEIR PLEASURE

so, good bye @tverweij, none of the true programmers is gonna regret you, trust me!

and DEF NO, I'm not offensive, just telling common sense
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: tverweij on May 17, 2018, 05:10:24 pm
Quote
simply because DIY IS THE BASIC PHILOSOPHY OF TRUE PROGRAMMERS AND THEIR PLEASURE

Please don't be angry. But I do not program for pleasure. I do program for a living.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: tverweij on May 17, 2018, 05:22:14 pm
But to clarify some more.

I do think that Lazarus/FPC is a very good product.
There is no doubt about that.

But as a professional developer, who has to produce, there is no time to struggle through the documentation and no time to solve problems in the product you are using to program- not if you want to have a life next to your profession.
I need a set of developers that are maintaining the product - not for fun and pleasure but for their customers. If I find a bug, I expect it to be solved within a few months. If I need some extra syntax sugar, I need it to be build. I can not wait until someone finds an issue interesting, fun or whatever before it is taken care of - I need someone who will do the work, and I will pay for it.

And that's why Lazarus/FPC did not fit my needs.

Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: Thaddy on May 17, 2018, 05:26:21 pm
Please don't be angry. But I do not program for pleasure. I do program for a living.
I don't think anyone is really angry. But why choose a non-to-semi-performant-but-elegant-dialect of a language? You will also run into porting problems and you chose an even bigger niche than FreePascal Object Pascal.
To a professional that sounds like bad judgement. That said: your choice will get - at the moment! - the job done. But don't expect that in the future. I wish you well.....
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: rvk on May 17, 2018, 05:27:37 pm
If I need some extra syntax sugar, I need it to be build. I can not wait until someone finds an issue interesting, fun or whatever before it is taken care of - I need someone who will do the work, and I will pay for it.
And you can get Remobjects to do that for you? With everything you want?

I think it will depend on what they think about that extra syntax sugar. If they think it's useful they might oblige you but there are limits.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: Handoko on May 17, 2018, 05:42:04 pm
@tverweij

We all know the support of Lazarus/FPC is not as good as the commercial ones can offer. But maybe you can consider to use bounty. I think it is a win-win solution, you need a new feature, you paid the amount you wish and others get the task and money.

I am not saying they are bad. But instead of paying a fix subscription fee, why not try to donate some here to support open source?

Here is the bounties page of Lazarus/FPC:
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Bounties

About the documentation, I admit the information is scattered here and there. If you don't have time to do the searching, you can post the problem on the forum. Remember, people here are nice. Sometimes you think they're angry, but actually they're not.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: marcov on May 17, 2018, 05:44:35 pm
I need a set of developers that are maintaining the product - not for fun and pleasure but for their customers. If I find a bug, I expect it to be solved within a few months. If I need some extra syntax sugar, I need it to be build. I can not wait until someone finds an issue interesting, fun or whatever before it is taken care of - I need someone who will do the work, and I will pay for it.

Interesting. So Oxygen is obligated to implement whatever syntactic sugar you think of? That's a first.

We all understand the realities of having to deliver projects on deadlines, and we all know what it is when the boss knocks on your door and he wants something "simple" to be done, and his ridiculously low assessment of how long it will take. (how hard can it be!)

Leaving Lazarus is no problem (though I would urge you to consider keeping it for small stuff, if only for the avoidance of Mono dependencies of small utils). As said I never even fully migrated to it, and I'm a 20 year long core devel. But your reasons IMHO don't compute.

If you are that dependent on your toolchain, you wouldn't choose (another) niche player as alternative.

Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: tverweij on May 17, 2018, 05:51:09 pm
Hi Handoko,

It's because I do not believe in bounties.
How much must I offer?
When will it be taken care of? - I still have to wait until someone finds it fun or needs the money.

What I need is an email address: support@lazarus-ide.org where I can file my bug / request / problem.
If it's a bug, they will handle it from there.
If it is a feature request, they will look into it to see if it is feasible.
If it's a problem they will guide me through it.

A forum can work. As long as the support is an active participator. And if they take action on the things discussed.
Again the same list, but extended with:
If it is not clear how it works, the documentation has to be improved.

That's what I am paying for at Microsoft and at RemObjects, because this kind of support is not possible for free.
And my experience with open source projects is that they do not want to be paid for anything.
They only want donations to do as they please. And I am not going to donate for that.
My customers are also only paying me if I do what they want/need. Not if I am doing what I like.



Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: tverweij on May 17, 2018, 05:55:10 pm
Quote
Interesting. So Oxygen is obligated to implement whatever syntactic sugar you think of? That's a first.

No they won't.
But they guide you with a work around if needed.
Support:
- good documentation
- good communication
- acceptable bug fix times

And that is what they deliver. A product is only as good as it's support.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: JanRoza on May 17, 2018, 06:52:44 pm
Maybe I missed it but where are the support questions tverweij asked? I cannot find a single one. Saying there is no support without ever asking for support seems to me like a very strange way to judge Lazarus support. I am very happy with this forum where you always get support when you ask for it. I hope tverweij finds the support he's looking for with Oxygen.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: sam707 on May 17, 2018, 10:37:33 pm
@JanRoza +1

@the others, I recently reminded that I worked nights long and for years and years on Qt (to correct myself and coworkers around diamond of death in C++)

see topic https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,41128.0.html (https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,41128.0.html)

I also use crossplatfarm IDEs like Ultimate++, FreeBasic FBEdit, and some other because even if I am out of professionnal life as you know, for 6 years (because I became my own boss), I knew bosses presure BUT

there is no point to abandon an IDE or a framework then come to its forum telling everyone "OK I LEAVE ANOTHER IS DAMN FUN" EVEN MORE IF I DID NEVER PARTICIPATE ACTIVELY TO THEIR FORUM that I leave

it's just like firing bullets in your own feet, in case you need help on the IDE you leave in the future hahaha
@Thaddy +1

cheers! have a nice life @tverweij
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: Zath on May 17, 2018, 11:38:11 pm
Why did you choose to stop using VB ?

Surely what you use for a project depends on what that project requires as no one package fits all. A proficient coder would be able to use Pascal, C#, VB as all have similar aspects but wouldn't preclude any of them just through some idea of lack of support.

I'm no super coder but as a web developer, I know how things can evolve and how much you need to keep learning. HTML and CSS are totally different from the markup back in the early days. There's no paid support for it either, it's all self taught.

I tweeted Marco Cantu a few weeks back and he replied with an answer. Embarcadero have support forums too where you can ask anything. There are many high echelon coders within easy reach in Embarcadero so its not a hopeless cause.

The Lazarus forums are more friendly than Embarcadero's as its a smaller and volunteer project. I keep looking at VS2017 and Delphi but its this forum and the people within it that keep me using Lazarus.
The name is fine and doesn't detract from the product. Most of the younger generation are too thick to even know what it is.

Good luck with your future projects.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: jamie on May 17, 2018, 11:52:59 pm
Going by the initial post it looks like trolling....


 real programmers enjoy working with something they can fix, enhance themselves and pass it along to the
community.

 Since it appears you think otherwise then good luck to you with Oxygen. I've tried it, its sluggish for real time
apps when it decides to do cleanups in the middle of critical operations.

 We write apps that generates real code that is speed efficient and consistent in performance.


 Like I said, good luck.
 
 Don't let the door hit in the butt on the way out.



Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: RAW on May 18, 2018, 12:19:51 am
$800 for coding DOT NET APPS in PASCAL... really ???   hmmm....  interesting... :)
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: jamie on May 18, 2018, 12:57:27 am
 
 We have one gent at work that has that package and I sat with him to port some D code over from it and all we could
get working good on it was the database related items.

 The same code also operates machinery, not directly but talks to PLC's for some items and ethernet and serial for
others..

 The fanless computers aren't real power house computers and having services also running it kind of makes the
brick a slow tard.

 With Oxygen it looks great and seems to work for the parts we could get working, not all of the code ported
but then it would take a break on us and the operator of the machine would sit there punching the touch screen waiting for
it to come up for air... when it did it would sometimes cause some services to overflow or loss data from devices.

 We have two D apps ported using Laz and they seem to work just as good as the D apps did, no unexpected stalls.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: sam707 on May 18, 2018, 01:03:43 am
@jamie +1
yup I guess, its kinda trolling or flaming attempt. but at some point we all enjoy flaming laz forum hehehehe  >:D
 so its fun  :P isn't it @Thaddy, my dear hated bro  :D
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: guest58172 on May 18, 2018, 01:48:30 am

 We have one gent at work that has that package and I sat with him to port some D code over from it and all we could
get working good on it was the database related items.

...

 We have two D apps ported using Laz and they seem to work just as good as the D apps did, no unexpected stalls.

I assume "D" here means Delphi and not D like the "D programming language" (https://dlang.org/) ?
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: Phil on May 18, 2018, 01:50:38 am
I assume "D" here means Delphi and not D like the "D programming language" (https://dlang.org/) ?

I assumed "D", but now that you mention it...
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: guest58172 on May 18, 2018, 02:00:58 am
yeah, porting idiomatic D to Oxygene would be very difficult, even impossible, without a tool generating the boilerplate code for the template instances.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: jamie on May 18, 2018, 03:36:32 am
I think most here would assume D = Delphi since most of this is fpc/Laz  related which is on a large part close to Delphi..

 No I was not referring to the D Language as in the one after the C with  GC memory handling and all..
 :)
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: tverweij on May 18, 2018, 08:49:20 am
Quote
$800 for coding DOT NET APPS in PASCAL... really ???   hmmm....  interesting...

C# / VB.Net pro costs about the same, C# / VB.Net Enterprise costs about $4000 (per year).
Delphi is in the same price range.
And I do not pay for the product. I pay for the support.

So learn from it: People are willing to pay for good support - works better than donations.

Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: tverweij on May 18, 2018, 09:13:20 am
And one other thing.

It is not a .Net only language.

Oxygen compiles to:
- .Net for Windows (Console, Winforms, WPF, WCF, Soap, Window Service, and ASP.Net)
- Mono for Windows (Console and Winforms) / Mono for Linux (Console, Winforms and GTK)
- Cocoa for Mac and Ios - native code
- Java (for Android + java applets)
- Native code (for Android, Linux, Windows - called Island)

Some extras:
- Support for cross platform development
- Unit testing (for all development types)
- Class contracts (for all development types)

So, I would not call it a pascal for .Net. Yes, .Net is also supported. And yes, you can develop in the Microsoft Visual Studio Editor. But it is not .Net only.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: Handoko on May 18, 2018, 09:56:42 am
That sounds good.

Please keep trying Oxygen and share what you think about it. Not much information I can get from the Internet, they only said it is related with .NET. Although I am not interested with Oxygen, but it's no harm to know more about it.

You know, you're always welcome in this forum even you're not using Lazarus/FPC.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: tverweij on May 18, 2018, 11:21:06 am
@Handoko,
You can follow my adventures at: http://oxygenpascal.blogspot.com (http://oxygenpascal.blogspot.com)
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: Leledumbo on May 18, 2018, 03:49:57 pm
I haven't seen Oxygen in a long time. Have they implemented a platform independent layer for all targets? You know, having a single language to target as many platforms is not enough, if the underlying library is still platform specific. You will need to write the platform independent layer yourself for code sharing, if the implementor doesn't give you one.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: tverweij on May 19, 2018, 03:41:59 pm
@Leledumbo

Yes they have (sort of).
You can build shared code for all targets.
So everything that can be used on any target can be placed into shared code, and consumed from any target.

It's a little bit like the Microsoft Xamarin strategy; UI is platform specific, implementation is shared between the targets.
(btw, you can also use Xamarin from Oxygene)
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygene
Post by: Thaddy on May 19, 2018, 05:02:47 pm
Sounds like and feels like ECMA script. Which would be a good idea if there are no real issues for you regarding speed. OTOH, use Python in such a case.(opinionated.. :-X )
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygene
Post by: lainz on May 19, 2018, 05:07:00 pm
How it works in Android? Is native?
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygene
Post by: Thaddy on May 19, 2018, 05:11:12 pm
No.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: Leledumbo on May 19, 2018, 08:06:21 pm
@Leledumbo

Yes they have (sort of).
You can build shared code for all targets.
So everything that can be used on any target can be placed into shared code, and consumed from any target.

It's a little bit like the Microsoft Xamarin strategy; UI is platform specific, implementation is shared between the targets.
(btw, you can also use Xamarin from Oxygene)
I mean, the RTL or even the UI. What you said is exactly what I said in my last sentence. For instance, does Console.WriteLine works on all platform? From the tutorial, apparently not (but writeln is, though).
I see their page still states:
Quote
Think of it not as "cross-platform development", but as truly and natively supporting each of these platforms as a first class citizen and development solution.
so they haven't really done anything about it as it is their intention from the start and still hasn't changed.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygene
Post by: Akira1364 on May 21, 2018, 04:26:59 am
Don't really agree with the general points made by OP, but if anything at least RemObjects is a company worth supporting financially (unlike the running joke that is Embarcadero, for example.)
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygene
Post by: tverweij on May 21, 2018, 06:47:27 am
How it works in Android? Is native?
No.

Standard android applications are compiled to Java bytecode.
But you also have NDK extensions and NDK libraries (this is native).

How good it is? - I do not know yet. I will know more in the following months as I have used this one by then.

And I think native is overrated.
I am using .Net since 2005 and I never had a customer complaining about the fact that it is not native.
But if you think that this is important: The next generation of .Net, .Net Standard 3 will compile to native code (as I understood: multi platform, what means Linux, Mac and Windows).


Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: tverweij on May 21, 2018, 07:12:41 am
@Leledumbo

Yes they have (sort of).
You can build shared code for all targets.
So everything that can be used on any target can be placed into shared code, and consumed from any target.

It's a little bit like the Microsoft Xamarin strategy; UI is platform specific, implementation is shared between the targets.
(btw, you can also use Xamarin from Oxygene)
I mean, the RTL or even the UI. What you said is exactly what I said in my last sentence. For instance, does Console.WriteLine works on all platform? From the tutorial, apparently not (but writeln is, though).
I see their page still states:
Quote
Think of it not as "cross-platform development", but as truly and natively supporting each of these platforms as a first class citizen and development solution.
so they haven't really done anything about it as it is their intention from the start and still hasn't changed.

The language is the same for any project type.
The available frameworks are not.
and within the shared code project, you only have what will work on any project type - what makes it portable.

You simply cannot create a windows application and compile it to IOS.
And it is impossible to use android functionality within windows.
Even FPC can not do that; it als needs Cocoa for IOS and the Android SDK for Android apps.


Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygene
Post by: tverweij on May 21, 2018, 07:27:04 am
(opinionated.. :-X )

Aren't we all?  ;)
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygen
Post by: Leledumbo on May 21, 2018, 09:39:10 am
The language is the same for any project type.
The available frameworks are not.
and within the shared code project, you only have what will work on any project type - what makes it portable.

You simply cannot create a windows application and compile it to IOS.
And it is impossible to use android functionality within windows.
Even FPC can not do that; it als needs Cocoa for IOS and the Android SDK for Android apps.
In case you didn't get my initial point: that's why we have FCL and LCL in the first place.
Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygene
Post by: tverweij on May 21, 2018, 09:49:34 am
Question 1: So you can create one UI in Lazarus and compile this to Android and IOS?
Question 2: Are you able to compile stable and 100% working production grade Android and IOS apps with the LCL and FCL at this moment - with a single codebase?

For the first question - I do not know any development system that can do that yet (so it would be a first if FPC/Lazarus could do this).
For the second question: The only one that I know of that they can do that at this moment is Microsoft Xamarin (If FPC/Lazarus can do this please document it on a wiki page and lead me to it).

Title: Re: Leaving for Oxygene
Post by: Leledumbo on May 21, 2018, 10:07:56 am
Question 1: So you can create one UI in Lazarus and compile this to Android and IOS?
That's the hope, it's technically possible instead of writing new interface like LAMW. We'll be just limited to LCL components (Android and iOS has more), but that shouldn't be a big issue.
Question 2: Are you able to compile stable and 100% working production grade Android and IOS apps with the LCL and FCL at this moment - with a single codebase?
Not for those two platforms at the moment as I don't have a need yet, so I don't have urgency to help as well.
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