Lazarus

Miscellaneous => Other => Topic started by: thehidden on February 17, 2017, 10:01:34 am

Title: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: thehidden on February 17, 2017, 10:01:34 am
Hi to all,

is there a list available about large projects done with Lazarus/Free Pascal and a list with available developers/development companies?

The reason for the question is that I have talked with some software programmers from development companies about Lazarus with their Statement that Lazarus/Free Pascal is still under development and not suitable for large projects or productive software. It would be good enough for learning only.

Additional they told that nobody would use anything byside C# and C++ for new Software projects. Delphi would be overaged and out of discussion for software development.

Any statements on this?
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: Handoko on February 17, 2017, 10:11:36 am
Here is the list of applications developed using Lazarus:
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Application_Gallery

Also this:
http://wiki.freepascal.org/FPC_Applications/Projects_Gallery

And this:
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Projects_using_Lazarus
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: thehidden on February 17, 2017, 10:22:06 am
Thank you for the list.

Any way to find a developer which is using Lazarus?

Is the Job Section here a good place to ask or is there anything else where I should ask additional?
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: Thaddy on February 17, 2017, 10:25:34 am
As with all software that is well maintained, of course FPC is still under development. That is a good thing...
Both FPC and Lazarus have releases, like any professionally maintained software, which is also a good thing.
Current FPC covers about 99.99% compatibility with D2009 and over 90% compatibility with the XE series of Delphi compilers.

It is certainly well suited to use in large, even huge projects.
I did compile - with some colleagues - a complete set of banking/stock trading server software some time ago written in D5,D6,D7 and D2006/D2007 (well over ~850.000 lines of code) as a test and in mode Delphi all of it compiled without change with FPC. And all of it passed the test suite. Note this code was written by a large team (25+) and within strict guidelines and peer review where "hacking like" low-level solutions are strictly forbidden. The only complaint was that not every executable's or binary's performance was on par with Delphi itself. Some were noticeably slower. One was much faster.

Also, look in the application gallery on the wiki for some impressive larger projects..

Release versions are not "under development" they are fully matured, but in the case of FPC you also have full access to future releases...by using trunk.

Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: derek.john.evans on February 17, 2017, 10:28:12 am
Quote from: thehidden on February 17, 2017, 10:01:34 am
Any statements on this?

Are you here to code or waste peoples time?
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: balazsszekely on February 17, 2017, 10:28:33 am
Quote
is there a list available about large projects done with Lazarus/Free Pascal and a list with available developers/development companies?
The largest project created with Free Pascal and Lazarus it's Lazarus itself. If your colleagues are not impress with this great IDE, I don't know what will impress them.

Quote
Additional they told that nobody would use anything byside C# and C++ for new Software projects. Delphi would be overaged and out of discussion for software development.

This is highly subjective(crappy  :D) opinion. The answer largely depends on what kind of software are you trying to create? Desktop applications? Programs for embedded device? A webpage? Now please create a webpage with c++, although is not impossible it would be an overkill. In my experience people who come up with statements like this: "pascal/delphi is out of discussion for software development", usually didn't write a single line of code in pascal. That doesn't mean the language is perfect, I'm not trying to suggest that. It's just a language, like any other with strengths and weaknesses. One of the strengths is productivity.
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: Handoko on February 17, 2017, 10:33:54 am
@thehidden:

If you have jobs/tasks, you can post it on the job board:
http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/board,41.0.html

If you want to fix/improve Lazarus/FPC, don't have time but have money, you can post it here:
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Bounties

And if you want to meet the developer:
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Developer_pages

If you find bugs, you can report it here:
http://bugs.freepascal.org/my_view_page.php
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: Thaddy on February 17, 2017, 10:41:42 am
Quote from: GetMem on February 17, 2017, 10:28:33 am
Now please create a webpage with c++
Can't help it
Code: HTML5  [Select][+][-]
  1. cout <<  "<html><body>html in C++</body></html>";

But I agree of course.
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: balazsszekely on February 17, 2017, 11:00:11 am
Quote from: Thaddy on February 17, 2017, 10:41:42 am
Quote from: GetMem on February 17, 2017, 10:28:33 am
Now please create a webpage with c++
Can't help it
Code: HTML5  [Select][+][-]
  1. cout <<  "<html><body>html in C++</body></html>";

But I agree of course.
That will print:  "<html><body>html in C++</body></html>" to the screen, so no webpage :D, actually with a few more lines you can redirect it to a file, so indeed you can create a simple html file with c++ and a lot more. In fact if I remember correctly, a small part of facebook is written in c++.(the part which reads the information from database). I wouldn't choose it for webdevelopment though.
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: derek.john.evans on February 17, 2017, 11:03:31 am
Thaddy is right. With CGI you have a webpage.
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: balazsszekely on February 17, 2017, 11:09:38 am
Quote
@Geepster
Thaddy is right. With CGI you have a webpage
Agree. I quote myself, again:
Quote
Now please create a webpage with c++, although is not impossible it would be an overkill.
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: Thaddy on February 17, 2017, 11:20:02 am
Oh well, enough fun for today. With iostream added and a main it compiles to a complete CGI.
But it's just like:
Code: Pascal  [Select][+][-]
  1. program ridiculecppsomewhat;begin writeln('<html><body>Now I have a webpage in FreePascal</body></html>');end.
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: thehidden on February 17, 2017, 11:23:43 am
Quote from: Geepster on February 17, 2017, 10:28:12 am
Quote from: thehidden on February 17, 2017, 10:01:34 am
Any statements on this?

Are you here to code or waste peoples time?

Simple answers:
1. I am consultant for product development for security related products and looking for a development solution for a cross programmed application (Windows and Linux) and not sure if Lazarus or Mono would be more trustworth. Client/Server application w/out Web. So HTML etc. is out of interest for this project.
2. Trying to find out if Lazarus is suitable for a larger Product which will be used for a security related product (Development company or single programmer must agree to a background check).
3. I code in C++, Delphi, but I don't want to take the liablitly risk for this project.  :D
4. Thank you for your answer. If I look for development companies/programmes on this forum, please don't waste my time and ignore it.
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: Thaddy on February 17, 2017, 11:42:04 am
I can answer that because I do about the same.
Security related coding is done with security aware developers. They need to be trained for that.
In this particular case it is not about the tools perse - given FPC and MONO or even C++ - but about the programmers themselves.
In any language, a programmer that is not security aware can create security issues.

My recommendation would be:
- If you have a fixed team of developers, train them and train them with reputable teachers.
- If you don't, either hire such persons or outsource to a company with reputable reputation.
- Always do peer review on security essential code.

It is not a matter of the tool, but a matter of how to use that tool.
It is wrong if you do not allocate sufficient budget to do these things.
Security aware programmers tend to come at a premium. A huge premium(at least 50% extra, but usually 100% on top or more) . But in the end it will save you money and, more importantly, .... reputation.
I would recommend a CEH course, but a relevant CISSP would also be a recommendation when hiring people.
These are not directly related to coding, but are eye-openers for your team.
There are specialized international  trainers for developers. (In private I can recommend some -not me, but the trainers that trained me -, but I am not an advertising company) Well worth the money.
Don't worry too much about the tool, worry about people.

In any case, Delphi, FPC and C# are less likely to shoot yourself in the foot compared to C++ if you can not affort to hire the proper people.
But then again, I am perfectly capable of shooting my toes off in any of the languages mentioned  O:-) That's a GOOD thing, btw, makes you more aware...
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: JD on February 17, 2017, 12:41:18 pm
Quote from: thehidden on February 17, 2017, 11:23:43 am
Simple answers:
1. I am consultant for product development for security related products and looking for a development solution for a cross programmed application (Windows and Linux) and not sure if Lazarus or Mono would be more trustworth. Client/Server application w/out Web. So HTML etc. is out of interest for this project.
2. Trying to find out if Lazarus is suitable for a larger Product which will be used for a security related product (Development company or single programmer must agree to a background check).
3. I code in C++, Delphi, but I don't want to take the liablitly risk for this project.  :D
4. Thank you for your answer. If I look for development companies/programmes on this forum, please don't waste my time and ignore it.

AFAIK most of the large projects done with Lazarus are not in the public domain. I myself have a couple of client/server WAN/Internet projects out there. Lazarus does the job without making a fuss. It talks to ALL the major databases (if you add mORMot, you even get MongoDB NoSQL support). It may not have an ecosystem as large as Java/C# but it is very, very capable. I've been encouraged by what was done using Lazarus/FPC in South America and Eastern Europe. Their work is a testimony to the capabilities of the software.

JD
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: Thaddy on February 17, 2017, 12:43:35 pm
Quote from: JD on February 17, 2017, 12:41:18 pm
AFAIK most of the large projects done with Lazarus are not in the public domain.
That's correct.
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: thehidden on February 17, 2017, 12:57:56 pm
Thank you for all the information.
I will make some thoughts on it and will talk with my customer.

@thaddy:
Budget is open. The limit is the sky.
Question is only to find out what is more suitable for my customer. Using an external company/programmer or getting a programmer as staff member. Time is the question, not the budget. As faster as better...
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: marcov on February 17, 2017, 01:33:07 pm
Quote from: thehidden on February 17, 2017, 10:01:34 am
Additional they told that nobody would use anything byside C# and C++ for new Software projects. Delphi would be overaged and out of discussion for software development.

Any statements on this?

Yeah, they are full of it. I wonder why you even bother to listen to them, since they are clearly clueless and subjective.
Title: Re: Large known Projects with Lazarus/Free Pascal?
Post by: jacmoe on February 17, 2017, 05:18:44 pm
I am a C++ programmer, and there are C++ frameworks for the web - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_frameworks#C.2B.2B (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_frameworks#C.2B.2B) - as there are web frameworks for pretty much any language, obscure or not, you can think of.

There is not really much difference between using C++, C, Rust or Go, so obviously: that does exist. And people are actually doing that.

If you care about faster time to market, productivity and maintainability, rather than what's hot these days, Lazarus and FPC is actually a very compelling option in my opinion.
Very productive.

Base your decisions on what you need, not on what's the newest black.
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