Translate the Object inspector...Is it possible?

[Chronos]

There are many options for beginners http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_educational_programming_languages

Pascal is the most well-known programming language that was designed with education in mind. From the late 1970s to the late 1980s, it was the primary choice in introductory computer science classes for teaching students programming in both the US and Europe. Its use for real-world applications has since increased, and regarding it as a purely educational programming language has since become somewhat controversial.

In my own experience using Turbo Pascal was pretty easy even at basic school. If it would be completely translated to native language it would be even more easy to learn and also usable for real world programming.

[Leledumbo]

If it would be completely translated to native language it would be even more easy to learn and also usable for real world programming.

I don't agree with this one. Real world (I mean, REAL world) programming often involves people crossing through countries (Lazarus and FPC are two examples). By people, I don't only mean developers, but also users. When you put your project on the web, people all over the world may access it (if you allow). Therefore, an internationalized version (which is already available and we're using ATM) should be used instead of the localized one.

[Martin_fr]

I can only agree with the last statement.

To be exact, IMHO there are  ways one could try to do this "translation". And both of them are making things harder...

1) Translate the LCL => but even if all developers where only from one country, and where using the same localized LCL, then they could not use any of the many other libraries, that all are made for the English LCL.
And anything they do, could not be used in any other place....
That is like creating a new language for every country.  In today's global environment that would be no good... (not to mention you need a team to maintain each localization)

2) Build in black magick in the object inspector, so it takes the english property from the LCL, and uses a lookup, and shows the translation....
But eventually programmers must access the same properties in code. And then they pay double. Not only have they to learn the english names anyway. They need to remember each and every translation...

IMHO the problem is not translating the OI. People using pascal need some english anyway. People using the LCL to need some more, as they need to use the properties in code....

But I can see on problem for beginners. It is not about Left, Right, Name, Caption or similar.
It is finding things like TSringGrid.Options goReleaxedRowSelect and others. Even if you do speak english, it takes a sharp eye, and imagination to find them, and to know/guess what they do....

That issue is not solved by translating the OI itself. It requires a good, searchable help system. And this help system needs to be translated....

The good news is, anyone who wants can write and/or translate the help.... No hold back....

[typo]

Even Mr. Obama seems to have some problems with USA, I do not blame those who have. Anyway, since the 80's there are a lot of Pascal programmers in Brazil  who don't speak English.

[Martin_fr]

Anyway, since the 80's there are a lot of Pascal programmers in Brazil  who don't speak English.

That's not the question. It is not doubted that a lot of programmers may not speak english. (and that will probably hold through across all continents).

The question was translating OI.
But how would or could a translate OI help them? (See my last post)

I learned programming long before I learned any english. It were a few 100 words I had to memorize.
Nothing compared to the process of abstracting a problem, and putting it into a well designed implementation.

[typo]

I agree that identifiers translation can be a backfire.

[Chronos]

Question is who would want to translate object inspector, libraries and even language keywords if it would need so much effort to do that and to maintain relations to original. English speaking world is pretty big but there are even bigger countries like China or India where count of programmers could be greater when whole population of USA Similar issue were addressed regarding to Unicode table where English characters occupies shorter code when characters from other languages. Then equal text in different language could have twice as big size as English equivalent in Unicode. Same problem arises with programming tools where English speaking people can write programs in native language where others have to learn English as second language and so have to thing in two languages which is more complicated for sure.

Personally I like pascal as it is and have no power to translate everything but if others are interested in process of deeper localization then it would be interesting at least watch their progress.

[theo]

Similar issue were addressed regarding to Unicode table where English characters occupies shorter code when characters from other languages.

Wrong. The Unicode range is called "Latin" not "English".
And the decision is simply because it "is the most widely used alphabetic writing system in the world today." (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Latin_alphabet_world_distribution.svg

[garlar27]

In short:
   1) Translate OI hints: Yes please. Why? some property names are quite hard to understand.
   2) Translate the LCL, etc.: NO WAY. Why? It is and established standard and people from all around the world is using it like Leledumbo said

If it would be completely translated to native language it would be even more easy to learn and also usable for real world programming.

I don't agree with this one. Real world (I mean, REAL world) programming often involves people crossing through countries (Lazarus and FPC are two examples). By people, I don't only mean developers, but also users. When you put your project on the web, people all over the world may access it (if you allow). Therefore, an internationalized version (which is already available and we're using ATM) should be used instead of the localized one.

Nowadays English is the language of science and global communication ... in other moments of history the same happened with German, French, Latin and Greek. Maybe the next language of science will be Chinese. And guess what. We all gonna have to learn Chinese and complain about it in a Forum!!


One thing that may help learners (maybe not) and I would really love is the possibility of using non English chars (áàäâ, Cyrillic chars, Arabian, Chinese, etc.) in identifiers, like java does

[Martin_fr]

Tick the "information box" in the OI options.

It displays some help, as far as I can see from the fpdoc....

translating the fpdoc would, as I wrote before, be reasonable (assuming someone wants to do that)

[typo]

is the possibility of using non English chars (áàäâ, Cyrillic chars, Arabian, Chinese, etc.) in identifiers, like java does

It would be enough for Portuguese too.

[marcov]

One thing that may help learners (maybe not) and I would really love is the possibility of using non English chars (áàäâ, Cyrillic chars, Arabian, Chinese, etc.) in identifiers, like java does

Delphi 2009+ afaik supports this, so probably this will come to FPC long term too. But that will probably take quite some time (e.g. only at the next major rewrite of the parser or symtables)

[marcov]

There are many options for beginners http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_educational_programming_languages

Pascal is the most well-known programming language that was designed with education in mind. From the late 1970s to the late 1980s, it was the primary choice in introductory computer science classes for teaching students programming in both the US and Europe. Its use for real-world applications has since increased, and regarding it as a purely educational programming language has since become somewhat controversial.

The first and second sentence are not related. Yes it was used for introductionary programming classes (sentence two). But it was not _designed_ for introductionary classes.

It was afaik originally  designed as an algorithmic notation language for research and education, with the hope that an implementation would be possible in time. (it took from 1968 till 1971 to produce a compiler). Not for introductionary courses.

And to be frank, original Pascal had certain problems in real life. But so had the first versions of C; the so called K&R versions, and older versions even more so(that only got somewhat rectified when they started to work towards ansi standarization. )
 

[Leledumbo]

Yes it was used for introductionary programming classes (sentence two). But it was not _designed_ for introductionary classes.

It was afaik originally  designed as an algorithmic notation language for research and education, with the hope that an implementation would be possible in time. (it took from 1968 till 1971 to produce a compiler). Not for introductionary courses.

AFAIK it was also used as an easy language to implement in Wirth's compiler classes, while preserving good things in a compiler (semantic checking, both compile and run-time). So maybe the statement isn't wrong at all, it's used for introductionary courses in compiler construction, but compiler construction is not an introductionary course

[garlar27]

One thing that may help learners (maybe not) and I would really love is the possibility of using non English chars (áàäâ, Cyrillic chars, Arabian, Chinese, etc.) in identifiers, like java does

Delphi 2009+ afaik supports this, so probably this will come to FPC long term too. But that will probably take quite some time (e.g. only at the next major rewrite of the parser or symtables)

It's good to know this =)