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Author Topic: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...  (Read 34874 times)

Phil

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2018, 09:55:26 pm »
You could be a professional developer, or freelancer that does a limited amount of work in Delphi, but even your non-Delphi projects would count to the $5000.

My earlier statements stand.

But not your statement that's wrong, presumably.

lainz

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2018, 04:24:09 am »
I think as I read it that any income counts. But maybe we need simply to ask them.

I see it good for open source projects, not replacing Lazarus but something interesting is.

Handoko

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2018, 05:50:25 am »
I think as I read it that any income counts.

I think the same. They mean if you don't have total income over $5000 in a year, it is very hard (or impossible) for you to afford the price so you can use it for free. But I could be wrong.

marcov

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2018, 08:33:17 am »
Contrast with Visual Studio Community Edition terms:

And, also important,  VS community edition is available continuously.

With all the limitations and flaky persistence, the Delphi community edition remain a set of training wheels, with as main loophole being able to develop something for free as a starting self employed. (and probably buy the full version when the first money of that order comes in).

That is also one of the few professional scenarios where tool cost can be prohibitive.

That said, at work we stopped subscription and stay at Seattle for now. Too much cost, too little benefit (the focus of development is too far from what we use)

taazz

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2018, 09:15:55 am »
Contrast with Visual Studio Community Edition terms:

And, also important,  VS community edition is available continuously.
it has its own problems eg VS 2015 is the last known version that installs on windows 7, 2017 requires windows 10 to "work" which I rather not install. It requires a microsoft account to use and you must login through that account once a year to update the license. All minor annoyances but crucial if you want to use it in a non connected machine or you use it once or twice a year and the moment it decides to stop working you have no internet access.

With all the limitations and flaky persistence, the Delphi community edition remain a set of training wheels, with as main loophole being able to develop something for free as a starting self employed. (and probably buy the full version when the first money of that order comes in).

That is also one of the few professional scenarios where tool cost can be prohibitive.

That said, at work we stopped subscription and stay at Seattle for now. Too much cost, too little benefit (the focus of development is too far from what we use)
agreed, delphi is alienating current users in pursuit of new markets. I guess if it gets faster new users than loosing them it would be ok for delphi the users will have to find something else.
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440bx

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2018, 11:20:00 am »
it has its own problems eg VS 2015 is the last known version that installs on windows 7, 2017 requires windows 10 to "work" which I rather not install.
Just FYI, VS2017, at least the community edition, works fine on Windows 7.   

It requires a microsoft account to use and you must login through that account once a year to update the license. All minor annoyances but crucial if you want to use it in a non connected machine or you use it once or twice a year and the moment it decides to stop working you have no internet access.
That is right.  Have a junk email account and use that to log in.  That' what free email accounts are for. :)

It's a bit heartbreaking to see how Embarcadero goes about marketing Delphi when one thinks about its roots.  Borland made a killing selling Turbo Pascal for $29.99 (admittedly that was a long time ago.)  I think they should sell a "basic" edition  (at that price today), just the compiler (32 and 64bit) a few basic controls  and let people have fun learning Pascal/Delphi.

Turbo Pascal was a great little compiler that created fast and small executables.  It was a great programming tool.  that could do everything that C could, with pleasure instead of aggravation.

Delphi could trounce any C/C++ compiler if its developers targeted C/C++ but, they probably don't have the Bs to do it.  It's all Cs instead. 

Fortunately, there is FPC and Lazarus.  It's a pretty good compiler and environment.  Both are in dire need of a better debugger (sorry GDB but your interface makes Windbg look modern.) 

(FPC v3.0.4 and Lazarus 1.8.2) or (FPC v3.2.2 and Lazarus v3.2) on Windows 7 SP1 64bit.

ASBzone

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2018, 07:26:43 pm »
Fortunately, there is FPC and Lazarus.  It's a pretty good compiler and environment.  Both are in dire need of a better debugger (sorry GDB but your interface makes Windbg look modern.)

LOL  :D
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taazz

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2018, 07:36:19 pm »
it has its own problems eg VS 2015 is the last known version that installs on windows 7, 2017 requires windows 10 to "work" which I rather not install.
Just FYI, VS2017, at least the community edition, works fine on Windows 7.   
not in mine no, but now that you mention it, it could be my mid 90s graphics card though. hmmmmmm.......
It requires a microsoft account to use and you must login through that account once a year to update the license. All minor annoyances but crucial if you want to use it in a non connected machine or you use it once or twice a year and the moment it decides to stop working you have no internet access.
That is right.  Have a junk email account and use that to log in.  That' what free email accounts are for. :)
Which most of them require a mobile phone/ sms able device this days and I'm not in america to use one of those disposable phones and to be frank I never share my personal detail on the internet not even with my bank.
It's a bit heartbreaking to see how Embarcadero goes about marketing Delphi when one thinks about its roots.  Borland made a killing selling Turbo Pascal for $29.99 (admittedly that was a long time ago.)  I think they should sell a "basic" edition  (at that price today), just the compiler (32 and 64bit) a few basic controls  and let people have fun learning Pascal/Delphi.

Turbo Pascal was a great little compiler that created fast and small executables.  It was a great programming tool.  that could do everything that C could, with pleasure instead of aggravation.

Delphi could trounce any C/C++ compiler if its developers targeted C/C++ but, they probably don't have the Bs to do it.  It's all Cs instead. 

Fortunately, there is FPC and Lazarus.  It's a pretty good compiler and environment.  Both are in dire need of a better debugger (sorry GDB but your interface makes Windbg look modern.)
Well have a close look, that is what happens when accountants are in control. Shout them all, I say, shoot them in the foot and drop them in the middle of the atlantic to swim back :P
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guest60499

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2018, 11:45:12 pm »
I think as I read it that any income counts.
It can't be any income. Welfare is considered income in the US (though is not taxable) so if you were so poor as to receive it should all of it go towards a license?

The wording indicates the income is associated with a legal entity, as is the license. That is if your company purchased a license and you used it it is still the company's license.

To "get around" the license restrictions make sure you own a business which is hired to do work, as opposed to having people hire you. This is just good sense in general as in most jurisdictions it protects you from a lot of liability and has tax benefits.

If your main line of work is not software and you are not an independent consultant then you fit the license terms under "individual" or "student." You could also attempt to claim the license under "individual" if you ran a sole proprietorship. In that case the license would not confer the ability to your sole proprietorship to use the software to author any binaries.

This is exciting, as I hope to experiment with some of the features in Delphi not in FPC yet. Hopefully it will help when adding them.

Phil

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2018, 12:00:01 am »
To "get around" the license restrictions make sure you own a business which is hired to do work, as opposed to having people hire you.

Not sure if I follow. The EULA mentions companies too.

In any case, Delphi's challenges have less to do with license terms than they do with macro trends in software development. If you look at this little article posted yesterday…

https://community.embarcadero.com/blogs/entry/introducing-delphi-cplusplusbuilder-community-edition

…you see Delphi Community Edition's target demographic: "freelance developers, startups, students and non-profits." What do startups, students and non-profits have in common? Well, no money for one, at least not at first. So it makes sense to make it free for them.

Everybody is chasing startups these days. For example, if you're a legitimate startup, you may qualify for US$ 10,000 in AWS credits from Amazon. A startup that grows into a much bigger company is likely to stay with AWS for their Web apps and services rather than move to something else (Azure).

One problem for Delphi with this line of thinking is that startups and students often don't use Windows. Delphi's compilers and IDE only run on Windows. But if you're doing mobile development, you probably have a Mac. And startups and students generally don't do much desktop app development, which would normally target Windows. And if you have Linux servers, Delphi Community Edition / Professional does not target Linux.

Even Microsoft has a Mac IDE now that targets iOS and Android, but that was only via acquisition, from a culture that understood Mac and mobile, albeit through a C# lens. Creating a Mac IDE from scratch was probably never an option, and is probably not an option for Delphi either. You can see a similar issue with Lazarus on Mac, where it's not very Mac-friendly and does not support iOS development, and thus would not hold much appeal for many of those "freelance developers, startups, students and non-profits."

It's been said that iPhone was Windows' extinction event. If so, then it follows that many of the languages and tools associated with traditional Windows desktop app development would also be in decline. The mammals won.

https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html

http://go.flatironschool.com/beyond-the-bootcamp?utm_campaign=Blog%20Posts&utm_source=Blog#Language-Trends

https://www.itwriting.com/blog/11008-remobjects-elements-mix-and-match-languages-and-platforms-as-you-like.html

lainz

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2018, 12:17:28 am »
I just go to the website and they give me a license key plus the setup without asking anything about my incomes. That's the reality.

And then, I started to receive mails from embarcadero partners to get started with Delphi, with some free webinars from 'Unisolutions' http://www.unisolutions.com.ar/.

Phil

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2018, 12:21:06 am »
I just go to the website and they give me a license key plus the setup without asking anything about my incomes. That's the reality.

That sounds great. Should be useful in a number of ways. For example, just compiling code with both FPC and Delphi should be very interesting for checking compatibility, inserting IFDEFs to work around differences, performance, etc.

guest60499

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2018, 03:22:08 am »
To "get around" the license restrictions make sure you own a business which is hired to do work, as opposed to having people hire you.

Not sure if I follow. The EULA mentions companies too.
Exactly. It mentions companies.

If you start Exceptional Widgets Ltd. and request a license with an account that has something to do with that company then the license is for the company, not you. You're free to make as much money as you'd like. The Delphi license for Exceptional Widgets Ltd. remains valid as long as it fulfills the terms of the license.

You could even go further and request multiple licenses under different companies. In some jurisdictions you can create companies merely by claiming they exist. But at that point I'm inclined to think that if Embarcadero wanted to get a judgment against you they could.

Like  lainz mentioned I was simply able to sign up and get a key.

In any case, Delphi's challenges have less to do with license terms than they do with macro trends in software development. If you look at this little article posted yesterday…

I think this is a good observation. I have noticed a slowing in interest in Delphi and FPC although it still exists. Importantly the markets you mentioned that are in decline are still present in some way; perhaps this will bring more people to FPC.

It's been said that iPhone was Windows' extinction event. If so, then it follows that many of the languages and tools associated with traditional Windows desktop app development would also be in decline. The mammals won.

Are we lizard people?

bee

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2018, 03:23:10 am »
One problem for Delphi with this line of thinking is that startups and students often don't use Windows. Delphi's compilers and IDE only run on Windows. But if you're doing mobile development, you probably have a Mac. And startups and students generally don't do much desktop app development, which would normally target Windows. And if you have Linux servers, Delphi Community Edition / Professional does not target Linux.
This is the main reason I still can't use Delphi CE. My main workstation is a Mac and my products are web apps that are hosted on Linux servers. I don't even have Windows on my Virtual Box. Delphi CE IDE doesn't run on Mac and it doesn't support Linux compilation target. You gotta purchase Enterprise license to get Linux support, which is too expensive for my business. So, Delphi CE doesn't mean much to me personally, though I do hope Delphi CE would make Pascal language be known again.
-Bee-

A long time pascal lover.

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Re: delphi and C++ builder community edition is here...
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2018, 05:39:25 am »
I just go to the website and they give me a license key plus the setup without asking anything about my incomes. That's the reality.

And then, I started to receive mails from embarcadero partners to get started with Delphi, with some free webinars from 'Unisolutions' http://www.unisolutions.com.ar/.

I downloaded a trail last year and the sale guy called me in the afternoon Delphi CE was released.
want to get more sale before everybody found it out?

 

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