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Author Topic: Status of "attributes" language feature?  (Read 2365 times)

SlightlyOutOfPhase

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Status of "attributes" language feature?
« on: July 18, 2018, 04:39:20 pm »
The Free/Pascal Lazarus "foundation" page lists this as a 2018 thing and claims that "the work is available for inspection and awaits merging to trunk." However, the only SVN branch related to attributes is the one by Joost van der Sluis, which hasn't been updated for four years at this point?

Is there additional, newer work on this being done somewhere else that I've missed?

I might ask the same question about closures/anonymous methods, actually, as the branch by Blaise Thorne regarding them has gone un-updated for even longer (2012!), yet this is also listed on the foundation page in a way that makes it sound imminent. 
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 04:43:34 pm by SlightlyOutOfPhase »

Akira1364

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 05:47:53 pm »
There is at least this relatively recent patch submission for attributes, by someone named Svetozar Belic: https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=33384

I tested it myself out of curiousity, and as far as I can tell it works fine and is feature complete. I was even able to compile and use the "SuperObject" and "XSuperObject" libraries (after some unrelated changes), which both require attributes support. I'm not really sure why exactly he hasn't received any feedback regarding it yet.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 12:23:23 am by Akira1364 »

Thaddy

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2018, 06:06:00 pm »
There is at least this relatively recent patch submission for attributes, by someone named Svetozar Belic: https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=33384

I tested it myself out of curiousity, and it works fine and is feature complete. I was even able to compile and use the "SuperObject" and "XSuperObject" libraries, which both require attributes support. I'm not really sure why exactly he hasn't received any feedback regarding it yet.
If the submitter does not provide tests, they need to be written. I think a patch to the compiler w/o tests can not be applied as is.
inline variables like in D10.3 are a bit like Brexit: if you are given the wrong information it sounds like a good idea. Every kid loves candy, but it makes you fat and your teeth will disappear.

Akira1364

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2018, 06:32:50 pm »
If the submitter does not provide tests, they need to be written. I think a patch to the compiler w/o tests can not be applied as is.

His patch does include tests, actually. Ten of them!

Leledumbo

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 08:40:00 pm »
Already assigned to Sven, give him some time or ping him just in case.

SlightlyOutOfPhase

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2018, 11:41:36 pm »
Based on what I've seen on the mailing list recently, it seems like Sven is basically intentionally ignoring the report because they don't like the syntax or something like that. Except wasn't Joost's original attributes implementation already known, for years, to be using that exact same syntax? Is there any truth at all to anything the Foundation website says?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 11:43:14 pm by SlightlyOutOfPhase »

hnb

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2018, 01:04:32 am »
Based on what I've seen on the mailing list recently, it seems like Sven is basically intentionally ignoring the report because they don't like the syntax or something like that. Except wasn't Joost's original attributes implementation already known, for years, to be using that exact same syntax? Is there any truth at all to anything the Foundation website says?
The real owner of foundation is Michael Van Canneyt. The FPC foundation was published in public space too early only because I had created NewPascal initiative with donations, the start of FPC foundation was intended to destroy NewPascal project/donations. Probably it sounds a little paranoid but this was directly confirmed by main persons in FPC foundation, the foundation itself was registered before NewPascal but publication was planned in much later time - maybe this is the reason why FPC foundation page has no actual/reliable information. Also the way of spending moneys is unclear also there is no vision (AFAIK only personal preferences of Michael).
Checkout NewPascal initiative and donate beer - ready to use tuned FPC compiler + Lazarus for mORMot project

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Maciej Izak

SlightlyOutOfPhase

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2018, 01:25:37 am »
I see. Personally I just want to know if these features are actually being worked on actively and can be expected to be usable in reality in the near future, or whether the website was simply designed in a theoretical fashion by scraping various FPC SVN branches and listing their overall intended purposes, regardless of status.

Is Joost still active in the FPC community? If so, I'd be interested to hear his opinion on all this...

hnb

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2018, 01:47:30 am »
Is Joost still active in the FPC community? If so, I'd be interested to hear his opinion on all this...
AFAIK not much. The attributes feature is rather complete and working. I was asking few times about state of attributes in the past. Free Pascal is a "fun driven" hobby project where core members who do the actual work can add what they like, there is no common vision (probably Delphi 7 compatibility is the strongest point). FPC core is reluctant to spend their time for things which are no fun or not needed by themselves or doesn't fit in their world view. Worth to note that FPC core doesn't like the syntax for attributes.

I was FPC core developer but I have permanent ban (from Michael ofc.) so I have no influence. The only what I can do to help is to add attributes to NewPascal. Probably this movement can be motivation for FPC core. For example worth to note that was really hard to put my Generics.Colellctions into FPC trunk (I was fighting for this for very long time - the resistance was really strong without any rational reason), it was added to trunk only when I decide to release Generics.Collections together with NewPascal (the same happened with RTTI module).
Checkout NewPascal initiative and donate beer - ready to use tuned FPC compiler + Lazarus for mORMot project

best regards,
Maciej Izak

SlightlyOutOfPhase

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2018, 03:28:02 am »
Is Joost still active in the FPC community? If so, I'd be interested to hear his opinion on all this...
I was FPC core developer but I have permanent ban (from Michael ofc.) so I have no influence. The only what I can do to help is to add attributes to NewPascal. Probably this movement can be motivation for FPC core. For example worth to note that was really hard to put my Generics.Colellctions into FPC trunk (I was fighting for this for very long time - the resistance was really strong without any rational reason), it was added to trunk only when I decide to release Generics.Collections together with NewPascal (the same happened with RTTI module).

If NewPascal gets attributes before FPC, I'd happily use it instead. Anonymous methods would be nice too.

marcov

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2018, 11:07:41 am »
Is Joost still active in the FPC community? 

Joost is not very active after the release of 3.0.0. He checks in a few times per year.

Blaazen

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2018, 01:30:00 pm »
Was Joost the main developer of fpdebug?
Lazarus 2.1.0 r59757M FPC 3.3.1 r40507 x86_64-linux-qt Chakra, Qt 4.8.7/5.11.2, Plasma 5.14.2
Lazarus 1.8.2 r57369 FPC 3.0.4 i386-win32-win32/win64 Wine 3.21

Try Eye-Candy Controls: https://sourceforge.net/projects/eccontrols/files/

marcov

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Re: Status of "attributes" language feature?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2018, 01:38:00 pm »
Was Joost the main developer of fpdebug?

Afaik Joost worked on GDB related debug. He might have worked on other debug related projects too, but iirc  Marc and Dimitry were the main fpdebug people.