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Author Topic: Leaving for Oxygene  (Read 4413 times)

tverweij

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Leaving for Oxygene
« on: May 17, 2018, 10:16:13 am »
The last months, after I decided to leave VB, I have tested several languages.
First was the choice of what language - and because of my previous (nineties) experience with Delphi, the choice became Object Pascal.

The first I tested was Delphi.
This one did not pass because the EDI felt like it didn't enter the new millennium yet.

The second was FPC.
This one did not pass because the IDE was still not out of the eighties (text based).

The third was OmniPascal with FPC.
Nice, but again the IDE... Visual studio code doesn't feel nice to work in on a daily basis.

The fourth was Lazarus wit FPC.
It felt good. Nice IDE, works fast - good to be working with.
But no support at all (if you want something, you have to do it yourself).

And now I tested Oxygen.
Superior IDE (Choice between Visual Studio for inter-language projects where I can reuse my VB DLL's and Water - there own IDE)
Simple to build Android, IOS, Windows, Mac and Linux applications.
Really good support (I filed a bug and it was solved the same day, I filed a wish and it is available in the next version)

So the choice has been made.
Lazarus is a good product, but the support sucks, and therefor I am leaving for Remobjects Oxigen.

[edit]
I was looking for a strict language, case insensitive and without the {} (I really hate them). - This  lead to Object Pascal.
And it should have the possibility to build for Windows, Ios and Android. - All tested environments can do this.
And if possible - able to use my VB.Net dll's; I have 10 year+ reusable code. - Oxygen was the only one that can do this (of the above).
[end edit]
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 03:55:49 pm by tverweij »

wp

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2018, 10:56:31 am »
The fourth was Lazarus wit FPC.[...] But no support at all
A slap in the face of all the devs and of everybody who answers questions here in the forum and mailing list. In fact I have never seen any commercial product which gave better support, most of my bugs reported were fixed within several days, sometimes even within minutes.

(if you want something, you have to do it yourself).
With commercial products you cannot even do it yourself.
Lazarus trunk / fpc 3.0.4 / all 32-bit on Win-10

tr_escape

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 11:02:06 am »
Ok.

Take care of yourself and your projects.

But I just wondering how many times will you get free support from any company?

« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 11:03:57 am by tr_escape »

tverweij

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 11:10:27 am »
Quote
With commercial products you cannot even do it yourself.
And with a free product I can not even pay to get it done.

Quote
But I just wondering how many times will you get free support from any company?
As you can see from the list (starting with Delphi), I was never looking for a free product or free support - I was looking for the best combination of IDE and support.
I am a commercial programmer (meaning I live from it), so support is one of the most important things, and it doesn't have to be free.

Maybe the best things in life are free, but it seems that the best things in professional life aren't.

JernejL

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2018, 11:19:59 am »
I don't really see much point in this thread you have made or what could possibly be its purpose, but in any case.. goodbye, have fun, we'll be here and making lazarus better :)
 

HeavyUser

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2018, 11:36:16 am »
Quote
With commercial products you cannot even do it yourself.
And with a free product I can not even pay to get it done.

Quote
But I just wondering how many times will you get free support from any company?
As you can see from the list (starting with Delphi), I was never looking for a free product or free support - I was looking for the best combination of IDE and support.
I am a commercial programmer (meaning I live from it), so support is one of the most important things, and it doesn't have to be free.

Maybe the best things in life are free, but it seems that the best things in professional life aren't.
that's a common misconception nothing in life is free. To the point, can you point me to your questions that did not got answered? I'd like to see where is the friction.

Handoko

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2018, 11:40:52 am »
And now I tested Oxygen.
Superior IDE (Choice between Visual Studio for inter-language projects where I can reuse my VB DLL's and Water - there own IDE)
Simple to build Android, IOS, Windows, Mac and Linux applications.
Really good support (I filed a bug and it was solved the same day, I filed a wish and it is available in the next version)

Glad to hear you finally found the tools that suits your needs.

Windows, Linux, Android + good support sounds like the product that I should try. I checked its website, the prices are not hobbyist friendly. But the worst is they use .net/mono, which is a big no for me.

JD

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2018, 12:01:03 pm »
And now I tested Oxygen.
Superior IDE (Choice between Visual Studio for inter-language projects where I can reuse my VB DLL's and Water - there own IDE)
Simple to build Android, IOS, Windows, Mac and Linux applications.
Really good support (I filed a bug and it was solved the same day, I filed a wish and it is available in the next version)

So the choice has been made.
Lazarus is a good product, but the support sucks, and therefor I am leaving for Remobjects Oxigen.

That is fine. I've used VB, VBA and Delphi in the past. I currently use several IDEs now: Lazarus, Eclipse and IDEs for R and Python.

As long as it works for you that is fine. I've had wonderful support from the Lazarus community over the years and since I know that it is an open source project where volunteers offer their time and experience for free, I can't complain about the quickness of responses.

I also know that you can PM some of the experts if you are looking for something in their area of expertise:

wp: TAChart, Visual Planit and fpspreadsheet
GetMem, LuizAmerico: VirtualTreeView
DonAlberto: fpcupdeluxe, Android development, mORMot
RemyLebeau: Indy
Lainz, circular: BGRA controls and general graphics
Thaddy, marcov, Juha and some others: general programming questions
Me: Databases, SQL

There are many others too numerous to mention.

This does not mean that these people cannot reply to questions in other areas, it is just an indicator of where to find help if you are in a hurry.  :D :D

Cheers,

JD
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 12:04:39 pm by JD »
Windows (10, 7) - Lazarus 1.8/FPC 3.0.4, NewPascal, Delphi
Linux Mint Cinnamon  - Lazarus 1.8/FPC 3.0.4, NewPascal

Indy 10.6 series; mORMot; Zeos 7.2.1; SQLite, Firebird, PostgreSQL & MariaDB; VirtualTreeView 5.5.3 R1

ccrause

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2018, 12:06:31 pm »
So the choice has been made.
Lazarus is a good product, but the support sucks, and therefor I am leaving for Remobjects Oxigen.
It seems that your requirements and what was offered by FPC + Lazarus didn't match up.  Good luck with your next choice.

md9projeto

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2018, 12:42:58 pm »
I really like REm Objects, In fact I was a big promoter between 2002 and 2004 when the company was not very well know.
Its a good option if you want to go native.
If you want to do WEb Apps,and hybrids,IW17 is the way to go(and they have plans for Lazarus)
But I think Lazarus is doing well with the few resources it has.
Brazil is under its worst financial crisis ever, I was not involved with coding from 2008 to 2015,So I left a lot of Lazarus history.
But during this time I have donated to some projects,both me,and the companies I worked for.
I don know if its your case,but people pays 3500 on Delphi,but don t contribute with u$200 dollars for a open source project.
I think two things are slowing down Lazarus.
First-There a re thousands of well succeed companies who don't want to leave object Pascal,because they have millions invested in it,and because they can get the work done with anything else(DElphi and Lazarus are still the best tool for those who believe in datacentric rather than domain model approach),but they dont want to state this,they dont want to get involved with it.
It like going to the supermarket with slippers.
SO basically, if someone can glue fpc/Lazzarus with those that have economical interest in it,it would help a lot.
I still don know what Iḿ going to do in the future,but If Iḿ going to use Lazarus,Iĺl do the same noise I did for REm Objects, and IW17.
Second,Lazarus is a bad name,Simple as that,excuse me for being so direct.
It means something that was once dead and came to live again,it would be bad for a car,or a refrigerator,but its even worst for a computer related technology, people want to be related to new things,fresh,fast,fun.pleasure ideas,its marketing.
Maybe we the programmers dont take it in consideration(At least consciously),but many companies wont adopt it if they dont think its cool, it affects even DElphi where the whole propaganda says its old fashioned.
Something like FEPC-Fast environment for Pascal Coding,or anything like that.

Marcello

marcov

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2018, 01:42:15 pm »
If I look through the original posters questions, I don't see many concrete question, just project direction and documentation. One can wonder if Lazarus ever had a fair chance.

That said, I myself still use Delphi in the office simply because the state of debugging on Windows. VCL and Windows only, though parts of the codebase have been used for Lazarus/FPC based Linux serverproducts.

As for Oxygene, I never saw the attraction. Both the language premise (you buy into a language maintained by one niche player, and the language is mostly a .NET creature with limited extras), and the concept of one toolchain for everything.

With a crossplatform abstraction, the Mobile targets require constant updates, and one should wonder if using the same language/libs is really worth it.

sam707

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2018, 03:44:36 pm »
this post is nonsense about the DIY (do it yourself)

simply because DIY IS THE BASIC PHILOSOPHY OF TRUE PROGRAMMERS AND THEIR PLEASURE

so, good bye @tverweij, none of the true programmers is gonna regret you, trust me!

and DEF NO, I'm not offensive, just telling common sense

tverweij

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2018, 05:10:24 pm »
Quote
simply because DIY IS THE BASIC PHILOSOPHY OF TRUE PROGRAMMERS AND THEIR PLEASURE

Please don't be angry. But I do not program for pleasure. I do program for a living.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 05:12:11 pm by tverweij »

tverweij

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 05:22:14 pm »
But to clarify some more.

I do think that Lazarus/FPC is a very good product.
There is no doubt about that.

But as a professional developer, who has to produce, there is no time to struggle through the documentation and no time to solve problems in the product you are using to program- not if you want to have a life next to your profession.
I need a set of developers that are maintaining the product - not for fun and pleasure but for their customers. If I find a bug, I expect it to be solved within a few months. If I need some extra syntax sugar, I need it to be build. I can not wait until someone finds an issue interesting, fun or whatever before it is taken care of - I need someone who will do the work, and I will pay for it.

And that's why Lazarus/FPC did not fit my needs.


Thaddy

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Re: Leaving for Oxygen
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2018, 05:26:21 pm »
Please don't be angry. But I do not program for pleasure. I do program for a living.
I don't think anyone is really angry. But why choose a non-to-semi-performant-but-elegant-dialect of a language? You will also run into porting problems and you chose an even bigger niche than FreePascal Object Pascal.
To a professional that sounds like bad judgement. That said: your choice will get - at the moment! - the job done. But don't expect that in the future. I wish you well.....
Ada's daddy wrote this:"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."

 

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