Recent

Author Topic: Blogs  (Read 13695 times)

tverweij

  • Guest
Re: Blogs
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2018, 05:36:39 pm »
This was an example.

How can it be improved?
1. Link the sourcedocs to the wiki docs (see also: <the relevant Wiki pages>)
2. Link the sourcedocs to the bugsystem (known bugs: <the links to the open bugs that relate to this>)
3. Link the sourcedocs to the example projects (Examples: <Path to the example projects, or better: link to a page where the example project is explained>)
4. Link the sourcedocs to the forum (Mentioned in discussions: Link to the dicussion posts on the forum>)
4. Place all information within one base url; whe have now 4 official links; fpc, lazarus, fpc/lazarus wiki and the forum.
5. Don't assume that I know anything about what I am searching for; By example https://www.freepascal.org - When I am looking for something: Is this located in the User's guide, Programmers guide, Language reference guide, or even in RTL or FCL? Or even in the LCL - in which case I have to go to a complete other website. In other words, the help system assumes that I already know a lot about the things that I am searching for.

These 5 points would be a good start - (almost) all information is there. But it is at this moment a hell of a job to find it.




Trenatos

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
    • MarcusFernstrom.com
Re: Blogs
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2018, 05:43:25 pm »
The freepascal website is not helpful for people new to FPC or Lazarus.

I went there now, looking for info on dynamic arrays.

Couldn't find it.

There's a Search function on the Docs page, but that just takes you to the forum root page, with no search at all happening...

Here's the entry for dynamic arrays at https://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/current/prog/progsu164.html#x208-2220008.2.10:

"A dynamic array is stored as a pointer to a block of memory on the heap. The memory on the heap is a contiguous sequence of variables of the components of the array, just as for a static array. The reference count and memory size are stored in memory just before the actual start of the array, at a negative offset relative to the address the pointer refers to. It should not be used."

Totally helpful.

That's what I found after searching for the word "dynamic" under each HTML document in the Docs section.

The site is good if you're already an FPC dev looking for info, but not if you're new to the language trying to figure out how to do things.

The amount of research needed to get to a productive state is very high compared to many other languages, which is fine for teaching and learning, but not when productivity matters, not for experienced developers looking to implement a product or project, usually on a deadline.

I absolutely 100% understand the frustrations of people coming into this language/toolset.

AFAIK the concrete problem was that you needed information about the working of Free Pascal dynamic arrays but you did not find the link 'Documentation' on https://www.freepascal.org/
correct?
Or was the problem that you did not find https://www.freepascal.org/
?
The question is how the situation can be improved. How did you try to get information? You write:
Quote
Where I found it:
1. Old Borland documentation (sorry, I am not going to dive into the compiler code to find out) - only have to hope that the FPC implementation is the same as it is not mentioned in the prog.pdf.
2. Don't know anymore - but on the Freepascal docs (internet) it is not mentioned that SetLength is ALWAYS returning a NEW dynamic array, even when you are thrinking the array it is copied.
3. Found it in the prog.pdf of FPC
Why did you not first check the documentation link on Free Pascal website? What must be done that it is more known to the FPC users?

RAW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
Re: Blogs
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2018, 05:46:16 pm »
BTW:
There are millions of DELPHI code snippets and DELPHI components and DELPHI web pages out there, that can be used as an example. There is a lot of code that is 1:1 usable within LAZARUS or only need some small changes ...

A little time ago I saw a nice calendar (DELPHI component) coded in 2000 and that is working very fine in LAZARUS ($MODE DELPHI) and with some easy changes even with $MODE OBJFPC. That's one thing I really like about LAZARUS...  :)

There is a FREE pdf book "FREE PASCAL FROM SQUARE ONE - JEFF DUNTEMANN", but I don't know if it's already completed... The first part is available...
Windows 7 Pro (x64 Sp1) & Windows XP Pro (x86 Sp3).

tverweij

  • Guest
Re: Blogs
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2018, 05:50:00 pm »
@Handoko:
I am experienced with windows services, database programming, webservices, office programming, handheld programming, etc. And all windows (including CE and mobile).
But not with compilers, development systems or multiplatform systems - I never did anything with that.
So I think this would be out of my league.


tverweij

  • Guest
Re: Blogs
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2018, 05:52:27 pm »
Raw wrote:
Quote
There are millions of DELPHI code snippets and DELPHI components and DELPHI web pages out there, that can be used as an example. There is a lot of code that is 1:1 usable within LAZARUS or only need some small changes ...

Where?
Please provide links, because I haven't found them yet.

mse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
Re: Blogs
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2018, 05:54:58 pm »
This was an example.

How can it be improved?
1. Link the sourcedocs to the wiki docs (see also: <the relevant Wiki pages>)
2. Link the sourcedocs to the bugsystem (known bugs: <the links to the open bugs that relate to this>)
3. Link the sourcedocs to the example projects (Examples: <Path to the example projects, or better: link to a page where the example project is explained>)
4. Link the sourcedocs to the forum (Mentioned in discussions: Link to the dicussion posts on the forum>)
4. Place all information within one base url; whe have now 4 official links; fpc, lazarus, fpc/lazarus wiki and the forum.
5. Don't assume that I know anything about what I am searching for; By example https://www.freepascal.org - When I am looking for something: Is this located in the User's guide, Programmers guide, Language reference guide, or even in RTL or FCL? Or even in the LCL - in which case I have to go to a complete other website. In other words, the help system assumes that I already know a lot about the things that I am searching for.

These 5 points would be a good start - (almost) all information is there. But it is at this moment a hell of a job to find it.
Above you wrote a tasklist for you. ;-)
I am still surprised that you did not search for the FPC language documentation on the Free Pascal website. Did you read
https://www.freepascal.org/docs.var
?
It is unavoidable that you must think yourself if the answer of a question is in located in the User's guide, Programmers guide, Language reference guide, or even in RTL or FCL. What do you expect? Lazarus is an independent project from Free Pascal.

tverweij

  • Guest
Re: Blogs
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2018, 06:02:56 pm »
I will take the job (or at least try) if you can tell me how I can change the generated sourcedocs, how I can dynamically search for bugs and forum messages from another website and how to put it in the Chm files, so it can be used from Lazarus.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:05:39 pm by tverweij »

mse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
Re: Blogs
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2018, 06:18:38 pm »

Couldn't find it.

There's a Search function on the Docs page, but that just takes you to the forum root page, with no search at all happening...
That is true. Search functions on the Free Pascal and Lazarus webpages are mostly useless. Google works better
https://www.google.ch/search?q=free+pascal+dynamic+array
shows
https://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/ref/refsu14.html
at second entry.

If one wants to learn Free Pascal one must read
https://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/current/ref/ref.html
from start to end.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:35:37 pm by mse »

Thaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14373
  • Sensorship about opinions does not belong here.
Re: Blogs
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2018, 06:23:16 pm »
I would recommend the pdf version, though.
Object Pascal programmers should get rid of their "component fetish" especially with the non-visuals.

mse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
Re: Blogs
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2018, 06:27:08 pm »
I will take the job (or at least try) if you can tell me how I can change the generated sourcedocs, how I can dynamically search for bugs and forum messages from another website and how to put it in the Chm files, so it can be used from Lazarus.
What do you mean with "generated sourcedocs"?
https://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/current/rtl/index.html
and
https://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/current/fcl/index.html
? fpdoc documentation is here
https://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/current/fpdoc/fpdoc.html

Although I think the problem is that people do not find
https://www.freepascal.org/docs.var
and especially do not find
https://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/current/ref/ref.html
that must be improved.

Edit:
https://www.google.ch/search?q=free+pascal+documentation
shows
https://www.freepascal.org/docs.var
in first item. If this is not good enough it is completely hopless for some people...
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:33:21 pm by mse »

RAW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
Re: Blogs
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2018, 06:28:04 pm »
google + keywords + DELPHI + stackoverflow
http://castle-engine.io/modern_pascal_introduction.html
https://www.contrapositivediary.com/?p=4034
https://torry.net/quicksearchd.php?String=color+picker&Title=Yes
https://www.inner-smile.com/delphifaq.phtml
https://delphigl.com/
http://www.efg2.com/Lab/Library/Delphi/Graphics/Win32API.htm
http://delphidabbler.com/index
http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/
http://www.delphidev.de/forum/index.php
https://prog.olsztyn.pl/paslibvlc/
http://angusj.com/delphi/gr32_lines.php
https://svn.code.sf.net/p/graphics32/code/trunk/Source/
https://sourceforge.net/p/graphics32/code/HEAD/tree/branches/Graphics32%201.9.1%20Fixes/Source/
http://imaginglib.sourceforge.net/
https://asphyre.net/pxl/help/
http://www.planetclegg.com/projects/WarpingTextToSplines.html
http://www.un4seen.com/bass.html
http://delphiforfun.org/Programs//DateCalc.htm
http://www.davdata.nl/math/connect4.html
http://wiki.freepascal.org/KOL
http://www.delphibasics.info/home/delphibasicssnippets/smallestsystempasandsysinitpas-windowsxpvista7
http://www.swissdelphicenter.ch/de/showcode.php?id=2307
http://www.delphiarea.com/products/delphi-components/gradient/
http://www.festra.com/eng/sources.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/delphizeus/first1.html
http://www.daniel-schwamm.de/index.php?pg=delphi-tutorials/opengl-swarm-intelligence
http://rmklever.com/
http://www.delphisources.ru/pages/programs_1.html
https://www.delphitools.info/2010/10/28/optimizing-for-memory-a-tighter-tlist/
http://www.micrel.cz/delphi/index_e.html

Some GITHUB stuff
https://github.com/FChrisF/LLCL
https://github.com/CMCHTPC/DelphiDX12
https://github.com/fredvs/uos/releases
https://github.com/graemeg/fpGUI/releases
https://github.com/BeRo1985/pasvulkan
https://github.com/bgrabitmap/bgrabitmap/releases
https://github.com/bgrabitmap/bgracontrols/releases
https://github.com/DJMaster/csfml-fpc
https://github.com/LongDirtyAnimAlf/FPC-USB-HID
https://github.com/synopse/SynPDF
https://github.com/blikblum/VirtualTreeView-Lazarus
https://github.com/synopse/LVCL
https://github.com/jmpessoa/lazandroidmodulewizard
https://github.com/tristan2468/PDFPrint?files=1
https://github.com/neurolabusc/OpenGLCoreTutorials
https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/wiki/Hiero
https://github.com/blikblum/jcl
https://github.com/Relfos/TERRA-Engine
https://github.com/Zaflis/nxpascal
https://github.com/Jam3/msdf-bmfont
https://github.com/castle-engine
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:54:30 pm by RAW »
Windows 7 Pro (x64 Sp1) & Windows XP Pro (x86 Sp3).

Handoko

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5154
  • My goal: build my own game engine using Lazarus
Re: Blogs
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2018, 07:00:30 pm »
And these are my recommend pages for newbies:

Lazarus tutorial for beginners:
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Tutorial

List of tutorials with wide range of topics (graphics, database, printer, web, etc):
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Documentation#Lazarus.2FFPC_.28Free_Pascal.29
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Category:Tutorials

(Free) Pascal reference guide:
http://freepascal.org/docs-html/current/ref/ref.html

If you're looking for step-by-step Pascal tutorial, try these: http://www.pascal-programming.info/index.php
http://www.taoyue.com/tutorials/pascal/index.html

Lazarus IDE features (some with animations):
http://wiki.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since

Some cool Pascal tricks:
http://lazplanet.blogspot.co.id/

Pascal video tutorials:
https://devstructor.com/index.php?page=tutorials

Thaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14373
  • Sensorship about opinions does not belong here.
Re: Blogs
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2018, 07:28:29 pm »
A good introduction that also applies to Lazarus and FPC is Marco Cantu's free book Essential Pascal.
 http://www.marcocantu.com/epascal/
Comes with sourcecode - separate download - and comes in multiple languages.
Object Pascal programmers should get rid of their "component fetish" especially with the non-visuals.

tverweij

  • Guest
Re: Blogs
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2018, 02:30:34 pm »
I give up.

I did not ask for advice for reading.
I asked for the complete cleanup of all existing documentation in such a way that it becomes usable.

But i looks like nobody (wants) to understand.
I will live with this mess as everyone else does here - I won't bring it up anymore.

mse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
Re: Blogs
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2018, 03:07:00 pm »
I asked for the complete cleanup of all existing documentation in such a way that it becomes usable.
Again, the Free Pascal documentation is here:
https://www.freepascal.org/docs.var
And again the question, why did you not find it? We must ensure that everybody can find it.

 

TinyPortal © 2005-2018