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Author Topic: about spam  (Read 2042 times)

Handoko

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about spam
« on: December 15, 2017, 04:26:08 am »
Hey friend, you're not welcome here.

The post above is a spam!
This is a classic ufabet spam. Has been reported and deleted several times. But the poster still come back.

The spam link is on the signature. Anyone please pay attention on poster's signature, and report to moderator if you notice spam.

Moderator, please don't delete this spam too quickly. Lets others to learn how the TS doing spam. Also to penalize the spammer by letting Google to index this link. Because Google will penalize backlinks that frequently appears and deleted.

---edit---
The original spam post has been deleted.
Reason I replied the spam:
- To lets others know how to identify the spam
- To test if it is a bot or human. Result: that is a human spammer not bot.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:57:01 pm by Martin_fr »

Thaddy

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Re: External manipulation
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2017, 09:59:06 am »
Just report to moderator as SPAM. It is usually gone in minutes.
inline variables like in D10.3 are a bit like Brexit: if you are given the wrong information it sounds like a good idea. Every kid loves candy, but it makes you fat and your teeth will disappear.

Martin_fr

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Re: about spam
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2017, 03:58:58 pm »
I do not see the point in such replies...

But
Quote
To test if it is a bot or human. Result: that is a human spammer not bot.

Not that it makes any diff if it was a bot or not, but what made you believe it was a human?

Handoko

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Re: about spam
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2017, 04:06:25 pm »
Bot or not is not important, I'm just curious. Just some minutes after I replied, the user logged in to the forum. I don't think bots will relogin if someone replied the post it ever made.

You can call me mad. As a web developer, I am very curious about hackers/spammers activities. I spent almost 2 years intensively studying they patterns both human and bots by analyzing their IPs and logging activities I gathered from several of the websites I built. I even contacted them to verify the emails they used.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 04:17:15 pm by Handoko »

molly

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Re: about spam
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2017, 03:47:54 pm »
@Handoko:
We've tried to discuss this topic earlier but got brutally interrupted by the thread disappearing  :D

You seem to have another view on this then i do. I believe it is a bot, simply because it doesn't make any logic in my mind to spend such an amount of time looking up an older message, copy that, then paste that for a spam message and add the spam link(s).

There are enough (scripting) bots out there with support for simple machines. I've had to deal with this kind of spam for a long time now (very visible on dying boards) and the ip's usually belong to notorious spammers that spam an arsenal of boards. It simply doesn't add up to waste such amount of time for so little profit. Thereby the sequence is (exactly) similar. Bots know long time that there is usually speed-related detection active on boards. The bot has to look like a normal user to be able to stay effective for a longer period.

That is also where the deficiency in this bots are. They can't ever act like a normal user and the people using them are just plain stupid (if not then they would have skills which would make a much better living possible) I'm more concerned with those bots that have conversational AI, although those seem usually active on blogs and similar discussion forums.

Having said that, i do somewhat admire the fact that some of these scripties seem capable of bypassing the anti-spam measures of this board as they are usually enough to keep these bots away for long time. Are the questions renewed on a timely interval ?

Handoko

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Re: about spam
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2017, 05:09:31 pm »
First of all, I beg for sorry. Talking about spamming has nothing to do about programming.

@Handoko:
I believe it is a bot, simply because it doesn't make any logic in my mind to spend such an amount of time looking up an older message, copy that, then paste that for a spam message and add the spam link(s).

From bloggers' or web owners' point of view, it's worth. I was blogger, I understand how desperately they want to increase their website/blog's PR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank). Some even ready to pay money to raise its SERP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_results_page). If you're active in SEO marketplaces, then you will see lots of buyers there, price start from $5 to thousands of dollars.

For the bloggers and web owners who don't have much money, they will do it themselves. The spam - ufabet - is a returning spam. He failed several times, so (s)he learned and improved his/her techniques. He just randomly copied some questions from this forum or SO, which is very easy actually, to make the question look genuine.

Plus, this forum has high traffic, it has high rank in Google' eye. If a spammer really can make a back link here, it's a great boost for their website.

If it is a bot, how do you explain:
- After about 10 minutes I replied, the spammer logged in
- The bot must be stupid to revisit and login just to check the reply
- Or the bot is very smart to be able to do so
- Can the spammer write such clever script or will s/he afford to buy it

I know bots that has AI you mentioned. I ever asked support on a website, but then I realized I was talking to a chat bot, they simply stupid. About spam bots, not very hard to keep it minimize, at least on WordPress/Drupal site. Just use ProjectHoneyPot and some spam prevention plugins. That really stop almost 100% bots (based on my experience).

@Handoko:
It simply doesn't add up to waste such amount of time for so little profit.

It's all about money. If the owner managed to raise the website to PR5 or above, he can make money easily.

To understand spammers, you have to look from their eyes, think what they're thinking.

Anyway, sorry of being off topic from programming.
Just like Mr. Thaddy said, just report to moderator is the best thing we can do. No need to discuss about it.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 05:17:19 pm by Handoko »

molly

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Re: about spam
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2017, 07:04:48 pm »
First of all, I beg for sorry. Talking about spamming has nothing to do about programming.
Perhaps you are right about that. The thread is located inside misc/other though.

Quote
From bloggers' or web owners' point of view, it's worth. I was blogger, I understand how desperately they want to increase their website/blog's PR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank). Some even ready to pay money to raise its SERP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_results_page). If you're active in SEO marketplaces, then you will see lots of buyers there, price start from $5 to thousands of dollars.

Plus, this forum has high traffic, it has high rank in Google' eye. If a spammer really can make a back link here, it's a great boost for their website.
Blogging, advertisement, i get that. This bot seems to be posting for a specific website. fwiw advertising for betting sites is illegal in some countries.

I know money can be made with such things, but botownwer / web-master is in the wrong business if that is the way of making money. Money can be made much easier and quicker than that.

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If it is a bot, how do you explain:
- After about 10 minutes I replied, the spammer logged in
Reading the reply made to the original post ? Pretty stupid things to do actually since it can be done without logging in, but the simplemachines software is very convenient with its functionality.

I rather believe to make another post attempt because there was a reaction to the original post. The more reaction, the more attempts ? At least that is how i experienced it on other boards.

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- The bot must be stupid to revisit and login just to check the reply
That depends on how you look at it. If was to be a bot learning from conversation then i would want to analyze the reaction. The easier that can be done the better.

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- Or the bot is very smart to be able to do so
It could be a distraction tactic to 'act' like a normal user.

Quote
- Can the spammer write such clever script or will s/he afford to buy it
scripties buy the bot, buy the (simple machines) plugin and configure some variables. In case you are capable of producing your own bot then there are much better ways to spend your talent  :)

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I know bots that has AI you mentioned. I ever asked support on a website, but then I realized I was talking to a chat bot, they simply stupid.
Do realize that time did not stood still. There are much more powerful bots these days. Big companies are spending money on such things because in their infinite wisdom they believe to be able to create answering/support bots. Sometimes that goes wrong on a very large scale because the AI can be fooled into believing that certain topics that never would be used by normal human beings are treated as 'normal'. Recently there was an example of answering bots that was fooled into believing that racism and nazism was normal discussion and started throwing such post into normal people's discussions.

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About spam bots, not very hard to keep it minimize, at least on WordPress/Drupal site. Just use ProjectHoneyPot and some spam prevention plugins. That really stop almost 100% bots (based on my experience).
Yes, i am aware. However i would be more interested in understanding how these boards 'protection' was fooled. That is more related to programming topic/concept. As long as the questions and answers rotate it can't (easily) be beaten.

It's all about money. If the owner managed to raise the website to PR5 or above, he can make money easily.
In my personal opinion that ship has sailed for a couple of years now. If you make money out of advertising you are simply in the wrong business.

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To understand spammers, you have to look from their eyes, think what they're thinking.
Although spamming never has been a topic for me, i am aware. I'm personally more interested in other topics such as bypassing OS, scanners, other protection scheme's etc. Those boards do not have an interest whatsoever regarding spam(bots). If you want to have a lifetime banishment then start asking there about spamming  :)

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No need to discuss about it.
Perhaps not about the spam attempt itself, but it does raise a question with regards to programming: Do you believe that no developer is capable of creating an 'intelligent' (spam) bot ? It is actually rather simple to do. The problem with an intelligent bot is to educate it properly, which takes a fair amount of time. Screw that up or have some logic error in there and you can start over   :)

 

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