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Author Topic: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?  (Read 39055 times)

munair

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2017, 12:13:20 pm »
I did run debian stable and also installed Laz there. I don't remember it being significantly less problematic.
Did you install it from the repo? If so, what problems did you find? It seems to be working with everyone else here. Again, installing manually downloaded deb files can cause problems because of dependency issues. That's Linux. And you have to make sure all development libraries are installed, but Debian will fix that for you too. The only "problem" I found was that I had to install the lcl-qt4 library as it wasn't marked as a dependency by default. And I had to tell Lazarus that I want to compile against the KDE desktop. That's all. Two adjustments fixed within a minute. If you have a GTK based desktop everything should work out of the box. But if you start with unsupported packages or even compiling everything from source, then you really have to know what you're doing.
keep it simple

Thaddy

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2017, 12:14:30 pm »
Then what's the problem?
- installed from Debian stable: works out of the box
- using new features only available in later versions: be my guest, takes effort.
- A noob is perfectly capable of learning Pascal with a recent Debian Lazarus (1.6.2/4, 3.0.2 jessie or later)

There simply isn't any better development environment - any language- for any language available that has the same speed and stability.
Looks to me a troll..
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 12:21:02 pm by Thaddy »
Specialize a type, not a var.

mai

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2017, 12:24:30 pm »
I did run debian stable and also installed Laz there. I don't remember it being significantly less problematic.
It seems to be working with everyone else here.

if that is so, what do you need a help-forum for?

Thaddy

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2017, 12:25:24 pm »
RTFM
Specialize a type, not a var.

munair

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2017, 12:36:36 pm »
There simply isn't any better development environment - any language- for any language available that has the same speed and stability.
Couldn't agree more.  :-X
keep it simple

munair

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2017, 12:38:38 pm »
I did run debian stable and also installed Laz there. I don't remember it being significantly less problematic.
It seems to be working with everyone else here.

if that is so, what do you need a help-forum for?
Designed for those who want to be helped.  ;D
keep it simple

Handoko

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2017, 12:45:57 pm »
I did run debian stable and also installed Laz there. I don't remember it being significantly less problematic.
It seems to be working with everyone else here.

if that is so, what do you need a help-forum for?
Designed for those who want to be helped.  ;D

Agree. I ever helped someone who don't want help. I gave up at the end.

cpicanco

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2017, 01:28:51 pm »
I think Martin is doing against Debian now, so I expect no more problems to come.
Linux and Mac are build by Mattias.

Thank you Martin, and I am sorry about that!
Be mindful and excellent with each other.
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cpicanco

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2017, 02:00:37 pm »
I did run debian stable and also installed Laz there. I don't remember it being significantly less problematic.
It seems to be working with everyone else here.

if that is so, what do you need a help-forum for?

The present forum goes beyond help. It is a "social-machine", a tool, that increases the chances of aggregating people with common interests. For example, this very thread is not about help at all. Instead of investing time looking for help, you decided to create a thread to discuss general first impressions AGAINST lazarus. Are you felling yourself (forever) alone? I could not give you a hug, sorry about that, it is all virtual you know. So, now that you know that people in this forum are not against lazarus, what will you do?
Be mindful and excellent with each other.
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bee

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2017, 03:31:00 am »
I was about to make a video tutorial about how to install FPC and Lazarus IDE on Linux Mint, but it turns out someone else had already made one before me. So here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZqmmVeYT-I

In the video you'll find out that installing FPC and Lazarus IDE on Linux Mint isn't that difficult. In fact, it's quite easy even for a complete newbie. It takes less than 10 minutes to make it all works. It should also work on any Debian-based Linux distros that understand .deb package. Also take a look at other videos from the same author. Thanks to him.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 03:36:23 am by bee »
-Bee-

A long time pascal lover.

dbannon

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2017, 04:59:02 am »
I do think its a valid question.

I have been using Lazarus for a few months now, was a Delphi 2 user long ago. So, first impression, wow, look at that !  Then I found a very helpful forum, lots of knowledgeable people very keen to help.  So, 'yes' a good impression.

But not perfect !  (I am not trying to beat anyone up here but if we don't look at what needs improving, nothing will improve.) I found the Ubuntu package version difficult. Later I grabbed the 1.8rcX series and that was heaps better. I had trouble getting the "F1" help system working and think its a pity its seen as an add on. But I do acknowledge its not great anyway, very slow and incomplete. I do remember the Delphi version to be a lot better.

And I guess the general level of documentation is Lazaru's weak point if it has one.  Scroll through the wiki and see how many pages talk about very, very old issues.  How many things simply are not documented at all !

An example ?  I spent a fair while this morning trying to get a function in "FileUtil" working in a console app. Turns out its a LCL component, F1 cannot tell me that. And I sort of got hints I should use LazFileUtils instead. OK, where is LazFileUtils documented ?  Wait the 60 seconds or so for F1 to tell me it found an almost blank page in 27ms. Google cannot do any better.

(Now, if you are about to say, "if you don't like whats on the wiki, fix it" - be assured I have already added quite a bit to various Lazarus wiki pages. But a drop in the ocean compared to whats needed.)

But back to original question ? Yes, overall, a very good first (and subsequent) impression. And I will keep hacking at the wiki.


Lazarus 2, Linux (and reluctantly Win10, OSX)
My Project - https://github.com/tomboy-notes/tomboy-ng and my github - https://github.com/davidbannon

munair

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2017, 05:07:35 am »
I do think its a valid question.

I have been using Lazarus for a few months now, was a Delphi 2 user long ago. So, first impression, wow, look at that !  Then I found a very helpful forum, lots of knowledgeable people very keen to help.  So, 'yes' a good impression.

But not perfect !  (I am not trying to beat anyone up here but if we don't look at what needs improving, nothing will improve.) I found the Ubuntu package version difficult. Later I grabbed the 1.8rcX series and that was heaps better. I had trouble getting the "F1" help system working and think its a pity its seen as an add on. But I do acknowledge its not great anyway, very slow and incomplete. I do remember the Delphi version to be a lot better.

And I guess the general level of documentation is Lazaru's weak point if it has one.  Scroll through the wiki and see how many pages talk about very, very old issues.  How many things simply are not documented at all !

An example ?  I spent a fair while this morning trying to get a function in "FileUtil" working in a console app. Turns out its a LCL component, F1 cannot tell me that. And I sort of got hints I should use LazFileUtils instead. OK, where is LazFileUtils documented ?  Wait the 60 seconds or so for F1 to tell me it found an almost blank page in 27ms. Google cannot do any better.

(Now, if you are about to say, "if you don't like whats on the wiki, fix it" - be assured I have already added quite a bit to various Lazarus wiki pages. But a drop in the ocean compared to whats needed.)

But back to original question ? Yes, overall, a very good first (and subsequent) impression. And I will keep hacking at the wiki.
The main difference between Delphi and Lazarus is that the first is a proprietary product from a (big) company where programmers are paid (very well), while the latter is open-source maintained by volunteers (including documentation). In this respect you cannot compare the two.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 05:11:12 am by Munair »
keep it simple

mai

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2017, 08:22:59 am »
I do think its a valid question.

I I had trouble getting the "F1" help system working and think its a pity its seen as an add on. But I do acknowledge its not great anyway, very slow and incomplete. I do remember the Delphi version to be a lot better.

same here! I gave up on context help and just use a browser which works, instead of  whatever it is they programmed in Pascal  for "F1 help". At least that way I can find stuff from the rtl.

In Delphi: F1 and you got what you were looking for. (though D2 was better than D3 in that respect.)

avra

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2017, 09:31:27 am »
In my experience, the most pain free installation option for Lazarus on any Linux is fpcupdeluxe

No.

 e.g. if you run "make" or "sudo make install" you will immeditately "enter a world of pain" (Walter of "big Lebowski") and everything will break at once.

This is a total misuse of fpcupdeluxe. No wonder you are facing problems. Wiki is strict that Laz/FPC combo installed with fpcupdeluxe should only be started through a shortcut, since it holds a key to a whole sandbox working. Once you choose not to use it, probably FPC from your path takes over, and other bad things happen.
ct2laz - Conversion between Lazarus and CodeTyphon
bithelpers - Bit manipulation for standard types
pasettimino - Siemens S7 PLC lib

wp

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2017, 10:04:48 am »
I do think its a valid question.

I I had trouble getting the "F1" help system working and think its a pity its seen as an add on. But I do acknowledge its not great anyway, very slow and incomplete. I do remember the Delphi version to be a lot better.

same here! I gave up on context help and just use a browser which works, instead of  whatever it is they programmed in Pascal  for "F1 help". At least that way I can find stuff from the rtl.

In Delphi: F1 and you got what you were looking for. (though D2 was better than D3 in that respect.)
Forget about F1. The help files never are up-to-date. But you have the source code and an excellent code navigation system. If you want to learn which procedures are contained in unit LazFileUtils, "ctrl-left"on "LazFileUtils" in the uses line - the code editor will open this unit for you to browse. If you want to learn about the parameters of a function, "ctrl-left" click on it again to open its implementation or interface declaration in the editor, press Ctrl-Up or Ctrl-Down to switch to interface or implementation sections. The only requirements are that the packages/units are mentioned in the project requirements /unit uses clauses, respectively. The most important advantage of this way of getting help is that you learn a lot about the code. And with this knowledge you once will be able to write patches to improve the product according to your needs, instead of lamenting about its shortcomings.

 

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