* * *

Author Topic: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?  (Read 15497 times)

Martin_fr

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4667
    • wiki
Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #90 on: July 10, 2018, 09:00:13 pm »
Well, figured that Lazarus is still extremely buggy and unstable. Debugger crashing very often, IDE throwing SEGFAULT errors when switching code tabs. Can't switch between form and code, even though the project clearly has forms, etc.

You did install version 1.8.x ?

Anyway on how to reproduce any of that?

Any extra packages installed (included, or 3rd party)?
(Anchordocking is still in development, if it does not work for you, then avoid it for now. Or report the bugs that you find)

Can you rebuild your IDE with debug info (Menu: Tools > Configure build lazarus: Custom options -gw -gl -Criot -gh -O-1  ) and start the IDE with
lazarus.exe --debug-log=c:\logfile.txt  (edit the properties of the desktop shortcut to add the option)
Then when the error happens, check the logfile, and report what is in it.


I use Lazarus (trunk though) on Win 10, and have no issues. (And I used previous versions too).

About the debugger. It currently relies on GDB (like a lot of other open source projects, but unlike commercial products). GDB sometimes causes its own errors... That is no excuse, just an explanation. We are working on an alternative. But it takes a lot of time.
You can test it by installing LazDebuggerFP, and configure (Tools > Options >Debugger) to use fpdebug. It is present in 1.8, but had lots of fixes in svn since.

Our Bugtracker: https://bugs.freepascal.org/
Keep in mind, we need some way to reproduce an issue (or a stack trace, with human readable source names from the log)

mw108

  • New member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #91 on: July 11, 2018, 02:44:46 pm »
Wow, nice to see that you guys actually care. :o Don't know how many issues and problems I reported to Borland / CodeGear / Embarcadero over the years and never got any response or see the problems fixed. Even the latest Delphi RX 10.3 has the same issues I experienced and reported back then many times.

You did install version 1.8.x ?
Yes. 1.8.4.

Any extra packages installed (included, or 3rd party)?
No. Just pure Lazarus.

Can you rebuild your IDE with debug info (Menu: Tools > Configure build lazarus: Custom options -gw -gl -Criot -gh -O-1  ) and start the IDE with
lazarus.exe --debug-log=c:\logfile.txt  (edit the properties of the desktop shortcut to add the option)
Then when the error happens, check the logfile, and report what is in it.

Anyway on how to reproduce any of that?
I recompiled and run Lazarus with the options you stated. Interestingly, since that I haven't had any issues again and the IDE seems to run stable now. Tried many projects, switched tabs many times. No problems. I will keep an eye on it though.
Maybe it didn't like the fact that I run it in a VMware guest OS? I found out that some "sensible" operations seem to not like it. For instance running WinLicense to protect an application in the VMware, the protected app always crashes on start. While protecting the same app with the same options in a real host with the same OS, it works and runs.

About the debugger. It currently relies on GDB (like a lot of other open source projects, but unlike commercial products). GDB sometimes causes its own errors... That is no excuse, just an explanation. We are working on an alternative. But it takes a lot of time.
You can test it by installing LazDebuggerFP, and configure (Tools > Options >Debugger) to use fpdebug. It is present in 1.8, but had lots of fixes in svn since.
Where can I find this debugger? Google only brings me to a Github repository 2 years old: https://github.com/alrieckert/lazarus/tree/master/components/lazdebuggers ... But I doubt that it is what you meant? Especially because you said "SVN" and not "GIT"?

Can't switch between form and code, even though the project clearly has forms
Regarding that, I found out that the projects I opened had their forms positions saved in weird places, like Top -1352 or Left 2844. Seems like the author has some big monitor. :D
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 02:47:29 pm by mw108 »

440bx

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #92 on: July 11, 2018, 03:00:50 pm »
Maybe it didn't like the fact that I run it in a VMware guest OS?

Just FYI, I've been running Lazarus and the FPC compilers under VMware workstation v10, Win 7 host and Win 7 guest (both 64 bit) for a few weeks now and have had no problems at all.  Everything has run flawlessly so far.

marcov

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6333
Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #93 on: July 11, 2018, 03:34:53 pm »
Maybe it didn't like the fact that I run it in a VMware guest OS? I found out that some "sensible" operations seem to not like it. For instance running WinLicense to protect an application in the VMware, the protected app always crashes on start. While protecting the same app with the same options in a real host with the same OS, it works and runs.

I can imagine debugger apis are more sensitive than the average app. It can be good to exclude the lazarus dir from the antivirus too.

Martin_fr

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4667
    • wiki
Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #94 on: July 11, 2018, 04:11:34 pm »
Wow, nice to see that you guys actually care. :o
We try. We (the team) are outnumbered by users though... :)

Quote
Can you rebuild your IDE with debug info (Menu: Tools > Configure build lazarus: Custom options -gw -gl -Criot -gh -O-1  ) and start the IDE with
lazarus.exe --debug-log=c:\logfile.txt  (edit the properties of the desktop shortcut to add the option)
I recompiled and run Lazarus with the options you stated. Interestingly, since that I haven't had any issues again and the IDE seems to run stable now. Tried many projects, switched tabs many times. No problems. I will keep an eye on it though.
It is possible you did hit an assertion. "assert(something)".

The IDE code contains asserts to check certain conditions never happen (as they should not). If they do, they may still produce a result, or silently do nothing... But since they are not supposed to happen, they are stopped with asserts.

You can add -Sa to the above list, to see if this is the case.

It is also possible that the issue depends on the optimization level (I have to check, what the installer is build with.)
You can replace the -O-1 from above with either -O- or -O2 or -O3

The one problem we (the team) have, is that once the installer is build, tested and released, we do not actually use that exact binary. Since we keep developing, we work with the svn version. And often also with different compile flags, as required by developing (debug settings).

There is also a setting -gt  which can be used to trigger certain bugs. (it can be added as -gt OR -gtt OR -gttt)
I usually have that applied to my settings.

Lastly, something could have gone wrong with the executable during installation, and was fixed consequently by rebuilding it.


Quote
Maybe it didn't like the fact that I run it in a VMware guest OS? I found out that some "sensible" operations seem to not like it.
I dont know, but I doubt it.
I run the IDE in native windows, but I also run it in Virtualbox in a Linux guest. No problems there.


Quote
About the debugger. It currently relies on GDB (like a lot of other open source projects, but unlike commercial products). GDB sometimes causes its own errors... That is no excuse, just an explanation. We are working on an alternative. But it takes a lot of time.
You can test it by installing LazDebuggerFP, and configure (Tools > Options >Debugger) to use fpdebug. It is present in 1.8, but had lots of fixes in svn since.
Where can I find this debugger? Google only brings me to a Github repository 2 years old: https://github.com/alrieckert/lazarus/tree/master/components/lazdebuggers ... But I doubt that it is what you meant? Especially because you said "SVN" and not "GIT"?
First of all, if you have gdb related issues, then 99% likely you would get "oops the debugger..." errors displayed.

fpdebug comes with the installer: In the IDE, in the menu: Packages > "Install/Uninstall packages". Under "Available for installation" search for "LazDebuggerFp". Install, and when you close the dialog, confirm to rebuild the IDE.
Then under menu Tools > Option, page Debugger: There is a dropdown (it shows gnu debugger", choose "fpdebug". Thats it.

In 1.8.4 it may have issues with 64bit (not sure it supports that at all), breakpoints in generics, and stepping in some cases.
In Svn trunk that should work. Best to use "fpcupdeluxe" if you want to install and test trunk.

Mind fpdebug is still beta. But I use it myself successful for some projects where gdb fails.

Quote
Can't switch between form and code, even though the project clearly has forms
Regarding that, I found out that the projects I opened had their forms positions saved in weird places, like Top -1352 or Left 2844. Seems like the author has some big monitor. :D
In the menu: Windows, there is "Center a lost window".

But I think, opening such a form, should at least give a warning. May be worth a bug report.


---
edit:

To do svn on windows:
- Install tortoise svn.
- Checkout https://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk
   eg into c:\laz_svn
- Copy the lazarus.exe from your install into the folder you checked out.
- create a folder "conf" in this folder. eg c:\laz_svn\conf
- create a file lazurus.cfg  eg c:\laz_svn\lazarus.cfg
  and put this lines into it
Code: Pascal  [Select]
  1. --primary-config-path=c:\laz_svn\conf
  2. --debug-log=C:\lazlog.txt
The debug log is optional.
The conf line makes sure this lazarus uses its own conf, and will not interfere with your existing install.

When you run this lazarus, a setup dialog will show (if not, you got the lazarus.cfg wrong).
The lazarus directory is the svn checkout dir c:\laz_svn
Point fpc, and fpc sources, to the fpc in your existing install.
Same for gdb.
There will be warnings about installed packages, ignore them.
=> rebuild the IDE

and thats it.



« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 04:23:43 pm by Martin_fr »

 

Recent

Get Lazarus at SourceForge.net. Fast, secure and Free Open Source software downloads Open Hub project report for Lazarus