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Author Topic: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?  (Read 17350 times)

mai

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2017, 02:01:25 am »

It should be noted that distros based on Debian Testing (like Ubuntu or Mint) may cause problems, often dependency related. In fact, I did try those distros and they weren't as stable as Debian in the long run. Most common problem was broken dependencies. But even there your "struggle for days" sounds exaggerated.

it is not exaggerated. I installed Laz via synaptic many many times e.g. on various debian derivates and I don't remember even one time where I obtained a workable install.

I always got into "units not found" errors and such or IDE won't recompile etc..

fpcup-deluxe works, but breaks if you install fp and Laz separartely. That is not ideal at all.

mai

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2017, 02:07:33 am »
In my experience, the most pain free installation option for Lazarus on any Linux is fpcupdeluxe

No.

 e.g. if you run "make" or "sudo make install" you will immeditately "enter a world of pain" (Walter of "big Lebowski") and everything will break at once.

mai

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2017, 02:12:17 am »
In my experience, the most pain free installation option for Lazarus on any Linux is fpcupdeluxe

I've had problems with the Debian packages, and I wonder how they could ever work, considering that many aspects of Lazarus/FPC requires write access to units (package installation and IDE rebuild).

Fpcupdeluxe is a frontend for building Lazarus/FPC from source, and it is 'installed' in your home directory. I recommend that very warmly!
(And surprised that it hasn't become the default installation method on *nix)

more often than not, I got error with fpcupdeluxe

if you use all buttons available , most of them will produce huge FAIL !

that is why fpcupdeluxe is not the default installer. only under rare circumstances, fpcupdeluxe will actually work.


mai

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2017, 02:17:19 am »
if Laz is as stable as some cult believers in here claim, then why are there only 6 or 7 notewothy apps written with fpc at all? Should be much more popular !


ugly truth is that BIG Laz FAIL begins with "apt install lazarus"

at which point you sit in the trap already.

bee

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2017, 03:01:25 am »
if Laz is as stable as some cult believers in here claim, then why are there only 6 or 7 notewothy apps written with fpc at all? Should be much more popular!
That's another different thing to discuss. Popularity today almost doesn't have anything to do with quality. Java sucks, yet many people praise it and using it. D*n*ld Tr*mps sucks, yet he got elected for presidency in a big and developed country. If you think popularity means good quality, perhaps you should use Java instead.

And please… we're not cults. This is an open source project, not an over-hyped product. There are literally tens of development tools out there, yet here we are. We wouldn't be here if we think FPC/Laz doesn't worth the trouble. You may have bad experiences with FPC/Laz, we could understand that, because FPC/Laz isn't that perfect either. But your personal experience unnecessarily happens to everybody here. Your mile may vary, so to say. Or you think we're all lying to you?
-Bee-

A long time pascal lover.

RAW

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2017, 03:22:36 am »
@mai
If you've got some problems with LINUX or LAZARUS, then don't use it and the pain goes away immediately. LINUX isn't for everyone... The same applies to LAZARUS...  :P

Or search for someone who is able to and give him/her some bucks to do the job...  :D
Windows 7 Pro (x64 Sp1) And Windows XP Pro (x86 Sp3) - LAZARUS 1.8.4 FPC 3.0.4 // 1.7 FPC 3.1.1

mai

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2017, 04:07:33 am »
@mai
If you've got some problems with LINUX or LAZARUS, then don't use it and the pain goes away immediately. LINUX isn't for everyone... The same applies to LAZARUS...  :P

Or search for someone who is able to and give him/her some bucks to do the job...  :D

that kind of reaction is pretty typical for suckware. mind you, even the wares by "suckless software" actually sucks quite badly, their usability is next to zero.

Handoko

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2017, 04:19:43 am »
If you have problem with the installation or using Lazarus, just ask. People here are nice. You asked about our 1st time impression, so we gave you. Our first impressions may be different with yours, so I think no need to argue for it.

I personally never have problem installing or running Lazarus on Windows and Linux. First time I used Lazarus was long time ago. It had less features and less stable as now.

Remember if you have any problem using or installing Lazarus, just ask. Simply saying Lazarus is bad, you won't get any good responses. Because here is Lazarus/FPC forum. If you want to say how bad Lazarus is, please use other forums. But if you found problems or bug in Lazarus, we are likely to help you to solve it.

RAW

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2017, 04:41:11 am »
Quote
that kind of reaction is pretty typical for suckware. mind you, even the wares by "suckless software" actually sucks quite badly, their usability is next to zero.
Ah, ok, I see... In that case you should probably exchange your computer with a television. Believe me it's much easier to handle ... I guess one or two weeks and you understand the concept...

Or be more specific as @Handoko already mentioned...
It's hard to reply anything intelligent to "all crap", "isn't working", "suckware" and so on...
BTW: There is something called error messages... I heard these messages are very helpful from time to time... maybe you can take a look at them...  :)
Windows 7 Pro (x64 Sp1) And Windows XP Pro (x86 Sp3) - LAZARUS 1.8.4 FPC 3.0.4 // 1.7 FPC 3.1.1

mai

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2017, 05:12:47 am »
this thread is specifically about first impression of Laz,

meaning whether it breaks a lot or no.


I specifically openend a thread about the Makefile breaking, where that issue may or may not be solved :  http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,38629.msg262899/topicseen.html#new

mai

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2017, 05:39:14 am »
In my experience, the most pain free installation option for Lazarus on any Linux is fpcupdeluxe

I've had problems with the Debian packages, and I wonder how they could ever work, considering that many aspects of Lazarus/FPC requires write access to units (package installation and IDE rebuild).

Fpcupdeluxe is a frontend for building Lazarus/FPC from source, and it is 'installed' in your home directory. I recommend that very warmly!
(And surprised that it hasn't become the default installation method on *nix)

more often than not, I got error with fpcupdeluxe

if you use all buttons available , most of them will produce huge FAIL !

that is why fpcupdeluxe is not the default installer. only under rare circumstances, fpcupdeluxe will actually work.

fpcupdeluxe sources are full of TODO notes saying that stuff is not working.

you are very lucky if u get anyting done with fpcupdeluxe.   thats why itz called  "de luxe" - the luxury of not breaking once in 100 times.

bee

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2017, 06:40:04 am »
@mai:
If you want a final and perfect development tool without any limitations, bugs, and errors, then you should find another solution. Free Pascal and Lazarus IDE along with its packages, libraries, and tools is a never ending and always on-progress project. There are still many things to do, unfinished and not yet working parts, flaws and bugs, and all the sharp edges that might hurt you here and there. But it doesn't mean it's not working at all. You just need to know how to use it properly and avoid those imperfect parts. If it's really unusable and not working at all, then what do you think we're doing with it all these years? Some of us even use it to develop professional and commercial applications. Do you think we're all that stupid?
-Bee-

A long time pascal lover.

mai

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2017, 08:11:29 am »
No. But not even properly documenting how to build Laz (I did it for you by now) is pretty gross.

re-building Laz is one of the first steps that one does and it should work right away or "make help" should tell how it can be done. Laz fails here.

If a little-used control crashes, no one cares, but after all these years the basics should be kept in order.

Another "basic" is to get 5-button-mice to work, the patch already exists. Of course, that  is never going to happen in Lazarus !  %)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 08:13:22 am by mai »

JanRoza

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2017, 08:32:24 am »
My first impression is that Mai already made his choice: Delphi is great and Lazarus is nothing.
Then why keep on complaining in such a negative way, your tone sounds like "We delphi's have it all and know best and you Lazaruses are simple amateurs".
You mean to tell us that Delphi installs great on Linux and Lazarus needs some more work on its Linux install, so what?
For me personal, I dumped Delphi in 2009 and converted all my projects to Lazarus and they are all still developed further and are well catered by Lazarus.
Be positive and try to contribute to make Lazarus better, if you don't like it then why use it?
Just my personal feelings about this thread.
OS: Windows 10 (64 bit)
Laz: Lazarus 1.8.4 FPC 3.0.4 i386-win32-win32/win64

Thaddy

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Re: Do newbies get a good "1st time impression" of Lazarus ?
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2017, 08:43:44 am »
I don't know what you are talking about (except that Debian lags big time) because when you install the latest stable Debian you can install a rather proper Lazarus and FPC.
Where does Debian lag? Except for its more conservative nature
You gave the answer yourself.... I exclusively use Debian or Debian derivatives, unless I am instructed to do otherwise.
But I am a pro and can see that beginners or amateurs are not always up to the extra work to have a more current Lazarus/FPC.
They read about features that may not be in the Debian distro.... That's all.
I Actually like the conservative approach of Debian, but that can be misleading in the context of this forum and the online documentation
Ada's daddy wrote this:"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."

 

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