Recent

Author Topic: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages  (Read 22256 times)

avra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2514
    • Additional info
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2017, 10:25:01 pm »
Well, there is no support for multiple workspaces/projects.
Have you seen lazprojectgroups package?
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Project_Groups
ct2laz - Conversion between Lazarus and CodeTyphon
bithelpers - Bit manipulation for standard types
pasettimino - Siemens S7 PLC lib

sky_khan

  • Guest
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2017, 10:54:30 pm »

avra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2514
    • Additional info
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2017, 02:33:36 pm »
Thanks, but no thanks
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Project_Groups#Bugs_.2F_ToDos
Then it would be far better if you have said that it was not good enough for you instead of misleading "there is no support  for multiple workspaces/projects". Anyway, I do not see any bugs in your link, only ToDo list. I also haven't experienced anything bad during my little playing with it.

I remember that docked IDE and embedded form designer were very buggy initially, but after some time things settled down and people started using them very actively. Contributions also helped. They are still far from perfect, but very usable and quite handy if you like such functionality.

Please forgive me, but I do not think that misleading or discouraging people testing new features in open source software is very helpful for prosperity of such software.
ct2laz - Conversion between Lazarus and CodeTyphon
bithelpers - Bit manipulation for standard types
pasettimino - Siemens S7 PLC lib

Nitorami

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2017, 03:07:08 pm »
Quote
A simple socket program, that waits for a connection and dumped the content it receives back to the console.

C: 0.1MB memory usage.
C++: 0.2MB memory usage.
Rust: 0.4MB memory usage. Syntax is funky with unwrap at several spots.
FreePascal: 0.6MB memory usage.

These figures don't mean a lot as they depend on compiler settings, and the default setting in FPC/Lazarus is for quick compilation, not for smallest size.

For instance
a) per default the executable contains debug information
b) the units linked in (e.g. for socket support) have probably not been compiled smartlinkable, and will therefore be linked in entirely. 
Some reading on this: http://wiki.freepascal.org/Size_Matters



sky_khan

  • Guest
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2017, 05:40:51 pm »
@avra

Ok, Lets try this new project group package. (Tested on Lazarus 1.8RC1 - Win32)
Created a new project group. Nice.
Lets create a new project. Hmm, It is not added to current group. You need to add it to group, manually
OK, Lets add it. You need to save it first. Ok, I found its folder on disk even Lazarus knows where it is saved.
Created secondary form. Nope, it is not updated in group. You need to reload group, manually
Try reload ? No! In order to reload you need to save project group first, manually
Click save. Group updated ? Nope. Click reload again...

Created another project. Well, it is not in group, added it to group, manually,
Created a secondary form. Of course it is not updated in group. You need to reload, manually
Removed a secondary from from project. Nope, Its still there in group. You need to reload,manually
Decided to rename main unit,  "Save as" in different name. Guess what ? You need to reload, manually

Btw, everytime you reload, project group tree is collapsed and forget where it were, you need to expand projects -and- files nodes everytime, manually.
So you cant use it in comfortable way to navigate between all units. You better continue to use project inspector to navigate between active project's units.

Now, created debug and release build modes for each project and set project1 for debug and project2 to release modes.
Are these reflected in group ? Well, they both have default,debug and release modes in group now but none of them selected.
Try reload ? Nope. They are still unselected. Try compile ? Nope, nothing happens.
It turns out project group has own build mode settings independent from project settings,which you need to select for each project, manually.
Compile by Run Menu, projects settings is in effect, compile by project group, group settings is in effect.
Just a little inconsistency you need to remember...

...

"Find in files" has no option to search all projects.
Change tracking on disk files only works for active project.
Code Browser only works for active project.
ToDo List only works for active project.

...

So, you need to babysit project group on every change for every project and nothing works at group scope. There is no real benefit except building more than
one project at once. Even then it does not comply each project's build modes but it compiles them with it's own mind.

And that is good enough, supported by Lazarus, project group feature for you ? You must be kidding. Really ? I mean, reeeally???

Now, create a new file, write your project's full paths, prefixed by lazbuild, like
lazbuild c:\projects\project1\project1.lpr
lazbuild c:\projects\project2\project2.lpr
save it as a batch file on Windows or insert #!/bin/sh as first line on Linux to build your projects at once and Voila!
There it is. Plus it will adhere your project's own settings. Continue to use Recent Projects on menu to switch between projects and you're done.
You will not really miss any of this "well supported!" group features. Because there is nothing beyond that it provides.
Sorry, truth hurts.

Anyway, whenever I had to argue with 3rd parties on somewhat stupid side-subjects like this I try giving a comprehensive answer and fact-checking it with my limited English and waste a lot of time then I lose my motivation badly to participate on this forum. Silly me.
Therefore I'm out of here once more for a rather long time.
See you later guys, well... maybe

Zoran

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
    • http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/User:Zoran
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2017, 05:56:47 pm »
No files display left side like Visual Studio Code?
In main menu choose Project->Project Inspector...

Zoran

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
    • http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/User:Zoran
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2017, 06:11:13 pm »
Did crash Lazarus editor: Press Tools - Example Projects and before the list loads press ESC. Instant memory violation. Seems somebody forget a check :D

Yes, I can reproduce. So, I reported: bug 31893.

Zath

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 391
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2017, 06:47:53 pm »
The latest Embarcadero Delphi incarnation, 10.2 Tokyo, comes with Delphi Pascal and C++. It can compile for Windows, Linux, Android, Mac...

You can get a free Standard version which would enable you to get a feel of it. The free version does have most db and web stuff missing though.

Delphi has always been close to Windows, even if sometimes behind a little. That said, they've been promoting their Win 10 credentials recently.

The beauty of Delphi and Lazarus with pascal is the ability to compile to a single exe and not be reliant on a continually changing .Net framework that C# is.

My layman two penneth's worth.

marcov

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11351
  • FPC developer.
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2017, 07:02:53 pm »
The latest Embarcadero Delphi incarnation, 10.2 Tokyo, comes with Delphi Pascal and C++. It can compile for Windows, Linux, Android, Mac...

No, only win32 and win64. The other non windows compilers are incompatible. No VCL, only a limited language.




Zath

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 391
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2017, 07:04:19 pm »
The latest Embarcadero Delphi incarnation, 10.2 Tokyo, comes with Delphi Pascal and C++. It can compile for Windows, Linux, Android, Mac...

No, only win32 and win64. The other non windows compilers are incompatible. No VCL, only a limited language.
Ok, thanks, I stand corrected.

avra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2514
    • Additional info
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2017, 03:22:08 am »
Ok, Lets try this new project group package...
Your whole essay documents that wiki ToDo list is true. Well done!

Anyway, whenever I had to argue with 3rd parties on somewhat stupid side-subjects like this I try giving a comprehensive answer and fact-checking it with my limited English and waste a lot of time then I lose my motivation badly to participate on this forum
Last time I checked facts you said "there is no support  for multiple workspaces/projects" which was simply not true. When I provided a link of such a package, your ego tried to defend your statement by shooting with everything you have at poor little package, although no one claimed at first place that package is perfect. Even provided wiki link clearly shows a big ToDo list, giving enough info for anyone to decide whether to try it or not. As for "stupid side-subjects" on which you "waste a lot of time", it looks like this is not your first time, so better think if your "I am always right" attitude is the reason for so much wasted time.

Therefore I'm out of here once more for a rather long time. See you later guys, well... maybe
If this is what I think it is then even my kids are more mature then this. If it is not then I do apologize. Time will tell. If you have filed bug reports and feature requests in bugtracker then I would really miss you. Anyway, I promise to have no further replies with you on this topic. If you wish last words are yours.
ct2laz - Conversion between Lazarus and CodeTyphon
bithelpers - Bit manipulation for standard types
pasettimino - Siemens S7 PLC lib

sky_khan

  • Guest
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2017, 04:42:25 pm »
Your whole essay documents that wiki ToDo list is true. Well done!
Not only that. It does show effectively how much it is far away from being usable for daily work.
You keep insisting that Lazarus have project groups support. The first step in solving a problem is recognizing there is one.
It is simply not usable. Maybe It can be said there is an early attempt to add this feature to Lazarus but dont say that it already has, not anywhere other than this forum, otherwise they will laugh at you.

Last time I checked facts you said "there is no support  for multiple workspaces/projects" which was simply not true. When I provided a link of such a package, your ego tried to defend your statement by shooting with everything you have at poor little package, although no one claimed at first place that package is perfect. Even provided wiki link clearly shows a big ToDo list, giving enough info for anyone to decide whether to try it or not. As for "stupid side-subjects" on which you "waste a lot of time", it looks like this is not your first time, so better think if your "I am always right" attitude is the reason for so much wasted time.
Me: Your software sucks at this (or doesnt work at all while doing that)
Open source fanboys: Why dont you implement it yourself and give us a patch ?

Really ? How thoughtful you are. I never thought that!

And what should I do for reporting for these ? Would "This feature is not usable at all until you implement most of your todo list" be enough ?
Even if I would like to, It would take at least a few weeks to examine Lazarus internals before beginning to write any code for missing features. Not everyone has this much commitment. I know I dont.

This below should be enough for that "I'm always right" thingie.
@tazz
You're right. My example still works too but I was not aware of that change. I wish I had checked first. Its a pity I had to reply that. I violated my own signature but whatever :)

If this is what I think it is then even my kids are more mature then this. If it is not then I do apologize. Time will tell. If you have filed bug reports and feature requests in bugtracker then I would really miss you. Anyway, I promise to have no further replies with you on this topic. If you wish last words are yours.
Now you started personal insults. Way to go!
Should I back insult you personally or what ?
This is how you trolling. You're a troll even without knowing it.

It is really hard for me to express myself in English. So I would rather write a few hundreds lines of example code instead of this very post. It might take less time!
Therefore, sorry, I do neither have enough vocabulary for answering these kind of nonsense nor time to spare for dealing trolls like you.
Congrats! You are in my ignore list now. Not only for this thread, dont expect me to answer you ever again.
Just dont bother to address me in any way in your posts from now on, please. I believe you can do this! 

Thaddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14161
  • Probably until I exterminate Putin.
Re: How does Pascal stack up vs the new languages
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2017, 05:55:34 pm »
It is really hard for me to express myself in English.
Express yourself in code...We understand that.
Your whole essay documents that wiki ToDo list is true. Well done!
Says somebody who actually encourages it to steal software. Like "Freeware". Shut up.
Specialize a type, not a var.

 

TinyPortal © 2005-2018