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Author Topic: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?  (Read 2526 times)

tan

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How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« on: April 19, 2017, 12:26:46 am »
It's maybe a little early for me to be asking this, but I would like to get involved with the developer community and help promote Lazarus.  Self interest, really.  There aren't really any choices I am aware of for GUI/business development on Linux.  Yes, in theory I could pick a "more modern" language and try to bolt on a GUI - but mostly I see a lot of bloat and complexity and uncertainty.

Is there a channel where the developers talk and would I be welcome to hang out?  I may not be a software developer any more but I am pretty skilled business-man.


I was really amazed to discover Lazarus as a Delphi and C# and, I guess, Java alternative for solid, practical business application development.  And especially amazed that something which seems so solid and polished and generally amazing is nearly unheard of in the greater programming community.

And I think that can be changed.  And I'd like to participate in that rising up.

Again, is there a channel for discussions on FP/Lazarus plans?  Is there any sort of annual national or international get together?  Is there any group involved in "marketing" and general promotion?

I'm hoping there is already some plan for Lazarus to explore web-assembly (or is there some fundamental reason why that is unreasonable that I am not aware of)?

Hopefully it is okay I posted here.  I'm pretty excited to have found such a vibrant and mature and cross-platform post-Delphi community!  It would be fun to be part of something so amazing.  You developers have a lot to be proud of!

lainz

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2017, 01:42:19 am »
Maybe here you can try to join the lazarus foundation
http://foundation.freepascal.org/

And about web assembly, was discussed here in the forum with no positive result as far as I remember, google it.

But they're working on Pascal to JavaScript that's better. Maybe if that works they can do Pascal to asm.js that's not that optimized as web assembly but is faster than JavaScript (is a subset).

tan

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2017, 02:23:32 am »
Ok.  I just sent a message via the link you provided to the foundation asking for more information on how to make a donation and what voice I might have in where the money goes.

As I said in my brief message, I am especially interested in strengthening Linux and DATABASE and maybe report-writer support.  Web Assembly would seem to be a smarter future-proofing target right now than another cross compiler to javascript, but maybe that is too far ahead.  First, stabilizing / completing and documenting any important and critical parts of the current implementation across platforms would seem more important.  And then getting word out more clearly, of course, on what awesomeness already exists (existence of Lazarus itself - I presume as a FP application? - says a LOT).

I am still taking baby steps with Lazarus personally.  Scratching my head a bit trying to learn the GUI and get basic database function working.   I think a better tutorial on that might be a useful place to get started as what I've seen so far by way of documentation with DB is kind of spotty (the Laz documentation on the whole, though, is surprisingly good!) 

If that goes well and seems solid under Linux (probably postgresql) I'll begin thinking about maybe moving a large mission critical accounting system from C#/Win to maybe Laz/Linux. I had some TP experience years ago but had never seen Delphi and had NO idea about Lazarus.

I followed the link to the "roadmap", also, but that is not very explicit ... nor very inspiring.  Who are the visionaries and main developers here?  Just developing and delivering a cogent VISION/ plan for the next year or two would bring a lot of positive energy to the work, I expect.  I am pretty sure that vision exists, or things wouldn't be so far along already. Articulating and planning and, yes, *marketing* better could probably translate to a lot of additional support.  What you guys have done, virtually unknown to the world, is really AMAZING! 

Phil

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2017, 03:00:35 am »
I'll begin thinking about maybe moving a large mission critical accounting system from C#/Win to maybe Laz/Linux. I had some TP experience years ago but had never seen Delphi and had NO idea about Lazarus.

What's your business case for that? Is it a desktop accounting system? Linux desktop has very little presence in the outside world. And as we move further into the post-desktop world, Linux desktop will have less and less relevance.

However, Linux on the server, particularly on AWS, is on the rise. So anything that helps Pascal developers write Web-based or server-based software would be helpful.

I certainly would not rewrite a stable Windows accounting system unless you're moving it to the Web.

tan

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2017, 03:27:55 am »
Phil, I'm a little contrary - it's made me a lot of money, though, so I'm inclined to continue to follow my hunches when they are strong enough and backed by enough evidence.

Things are looking rather dystopian to my eye.  We used to have privacy both from other businesses and from our own governments.  No more. We used to own our tools.  No more -- our tools increasingly own us.  Microsoft is asserting that our data is ITS data.  Intuit (Quickbooks) is openly and actively squeezing its customers with endless bogus "upgrades" which don't actually upgrading anything worth upgrading.  Of course - as everyone *should* know (but probably don't) - once your information is in the "cloud" you have effectively made it "open source".  The IRS can audit you every day of every year -- and probably can do that as a matter of routine and without a warrant. And the leaks, and ransoms get worse every day.  And my new "smart" TV thinks I am an idiot: I have no voice in getting rid of its endless, increasing forced advertising (even though I supposedly "own" the TV I certainly don't control it).

Anyway, I predict -- and I am willing to put money on it -- the cloud is only the future for idiots and consumers who are willing to be led by the nose.  And they are not being led for their own benefit, obviously.

A better future is to OWN your own data, and certainly control your own software from endless, generally bogus "upgrades" which only seem to proliferate size, complexity, reliance on outside "priests", security violations, and -- of course -- bugs.

I have a sales office with maybe a dozen networked CSRS taking orders.  The custom software was written in C# but the developer passed on last year.  We are maintaining it in-house now but we don't fully understand it (who ever does, even if documentation is good...which it regrettably isn't).  And there are more features needed as the business expands and changes.  But we would have stuck with Microsoft EXCEPT Microsoft sprung fangs last year so I am not going to EVER allow an "upgrade" (downgrade, actually) to Win 10 or beyond.

Microsoft (as with Google) has suckered a lot of people, and businesses.  But I'm awake now and I'm getting out.

I think you are very, very, very wrong about the desktop being dead.  And Linux (well, maybe BSD) is increasingly looking like the ONLY option for businesses who don't want to be used and abused ... basically pimped out and gang raped.

Anyway, take it from me: there is a LOT of money to be made in the future providing an alternative to the dystopia which is being crammed down our collective throats under guise of "better".

Hmm. I guess that was an off-topic rant.  Hope that is okay.   Back on topic, there is a huge need for software which provides solid function and just works.   Get off the forced farce we are all being coerced to join "voluntarily" and a lot of time and energy can be freed up to make a better business and more money.

And if Laz is solid on Linux (haven't had a chance to really check it out yet, keep in mind) or can be made to be solid than it really appears to have NO competition at the moment in the small business niche.

bee

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2017, 03:31:15 am »
It's maybe a little early for me to be asking this, but I would like to get involved with the developer community and help promote Lazarus. Self interest, really. There aren't really any choices I am aware of for GUI/business development on Linux. Yes, in theory I could pick a "more modern" language and try to bolt on a GUI - but mostly I see a lot of bloat and complexity and uncertainty.
Today's Pascal is already a modern language it can be. Actually, I think there are —at least— four dialects of modern Pascal available today. They are Free Pascal, Delphi, Smart Pascal, and Oxygene. Each of them offers its own advantages and disadvantages, also each has its own beauty and elegance. But among four of them, only Free Pascal that is free and open source with Lazarus IDE as its sister project. The other three are commercials, especially Delphi which costs thousands of (US) dollars.

Is there a channel where the developers talk and would I be welcome to hang out? I may not be a software developer any more but I am pretty skilled business-man.
AFAIK, most of FPC and Lazarus developers are using mailing list. You may subscribe to them here and start proposing your ideas.

I was really amazed to discover Lazarus as a Delphi and C# and, I guess, Java alternative for solid, practical business application development. And especially amazed that something which seems so solid and polished and generally amazing is nearly unheard of in the greater programming community.
Some people argue that the lack of language standard is the reason why this language is no longer popular. When Pascal was on its peak, it was backed by Apple (on Mac) and Borland (on PC). Today? Everybody seems to agree to disagree. That's why today we have 4 different Pascal dialects. :)

I'm hoping there is already some plan for Lazarus to explore web-assembly (or is there some fundamental reason why that is unreasonable that I am not aware of)?
I heard on the mailing list that they are currently working on pascal to JS transpiler that is able to "compile" pascal codes into JS codes. So we could use Pascal for front-end web development as well. Also if you really need it, you may try Smart Pascal which is a pascal dialect that exclusively target JS, including nodejs.

You developers have a lot to be proud of!
We are! :)
-Bee-

A long time pascal lover.

tan

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2017, 03:56:02 am »
Phil, There is a place for the internet in the future, but it is a LIMITED and very much more restricted internet.  Being "always connected" is a fundamentally stupid idea; although it has been smart for a number of businesses to sell the population on IOT.

Imagine an internet which is only *intermittent*.  Where your phone and personal computers CAN'T just be forced to take a connection from an outside hacker nor outside vendor whenever someone else says so.    Imagine using the internet for information -- but only under your terms and at times and locations of your choosing.   A lot of VPN use.  A lot of heavy encryption.   And when you've either sent or received the information YOU want, your computer/phone/house is CUT OFF -- ideally at a hardware/mechanical/power level which cannot be spoofed nor suborned.  What would be lost that wouldn't be well lost?   Ads?  Hacks?  Tracking?  All can be made intermittent and intentional (POLLED) with very little cost to the individual and business. Of course our MASTERS won't like it.....

Freedom then becomes possible again.  BTW have you seen the study Microsoft supposedly did a few years ago purporting to show that human attention span had fallen from something like 40 seconds to less than 6 seconds since we became the tools of our "smart" phones?  6 seconds is less than a goldfish.  This is an ugly, dystopian path we are being pied pipered down.  And remember how that story ended.

avra

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2017, 08:46:33 am »
Ok.  I just sent a message via the link you provided to the foundation asking for more information on how to make a donation and what voice I might have in where the money goes.
You might also take a look at bounties:
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Bounties
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avra

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2017, 08:52:56 am »
We used to have privacy both from other businesses and from our own governments.  No more. We used to own our tools.  No more -- our tools increasingly own us.  Microsoft is asserting that our data is ITS data.  Intuit (Quickbooks) is openly and actively squeezing its customers with endless bogus "upgrades" which don't actually upgrading anything worth upgrading.  Of course - as everyone *should* know (but probably don't) - once your information is in the "cloud" you have effectively made it "open source".  The IRS can audit you every day of every year -- and probably can do that as a matter of routine and without a warrant. And the leaks, and ransoms get worse every day.  And my new "smart" TV thinks I am an idiot: I have no voice in getting rid of its endless, increasing forced advertising (even though I supposedly "own" the TV I certainly don't control it).
Very refreshing point of view  :D
ct2laz - Easily convert components and projects between Lazarus and CodeTyphon

Groffy

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2017, 12:16:35 pm »
Maybe here you can try to join the lazarus foundation
http://foundation.freepascal.org/

Embarrassing, I did not even know that such foundation already exists...

Maybe its possible to create a separate board in this forum for communication? I'm curious about the activities of that foundation so far.

Regards
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 12:18:35 pm by Groffy »
Linux Mint 18.3 - KDE / Windows8 / Lazarus 1.6.4 / trunk -qt

Thaddy

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2017, 01:16:34 pm »
Write a killer application and publish the sourcecode....
"Logically, no number of positive outcomes at the level of experimental testing can confirm a scientific theory, but a single counterexample is logically decisive."

JuhaManninen

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2017, 01:51:17 pm »
Maybe its possible to create a separate board in this forum for communication?
If we get lots of traffic about the foundation in this forum then a separate board can be considered. Until then the discussion fits well in the existing boards. Remember, the foundation also has other channels for discussion.

Quote
I'm curious about the activities of that foundation so far.
The Pascal -> JavaScript compiler is the only activity I know of.
I was hoping to see effort for public relations and public visibility. That's what foundations around other FOSS projects do. You can see my frustrated comment about that in the foundation's Google+ page. The foundation members didn't even bother to reply.

Anyway "tan", if you are good at business you might be good at PR, too.
FPC and Lazarus projects are almost invisible to outside world, please make it your task to improve the situation.

jwdietrich

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2017, 03:09:41 pm »
Maybe here you can try to join the lazarus foundation
http://foundation.freepascal.org/

The foundation's web site writes for months:
Quote
The bylaws of the foundation are currently under revision.
As soon as they are complete, they will be put on the website for your consideration,
and at that time the registration page will be completed.
function GetRandomNumber: integer; // xkcd.com
begin
  GetRandomNumber := 4; // chosen by fair dice roll. Guaranteed to be random.
end;

Lazarus 1.6.4 | FPC 3.0.2 | PPC, Intel, ARM | macOS, Windows, Linux

Thaddy

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2017, 04:32:41 pm »
I don't care about the laws or by-laws as long as it is either German or Dutch law....
"Logically, no number of positive outcomes at the level of experimental testing can confirm a scientific theory, but a single counterexample is logically decisive."

jwdietrich

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Re: How can I help promote and advance Lazarus?
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2017, 12:14:28 am »
I don't care about the laws or by-laws as long as it is either German or Dutch law....

Yes, I understand and share your position. But obviously the founding members of the foundation prefer to wait until the bylaws have been revised, before they are going to make the registration page available.
function GetRandomNumber: integer; // xkcd.com
begin
  GetRandomNumber := 4; // chosen by fair dice roll. Guaranteed to be random.
end;

Lazarus 1.6.4 | FPC 3.0.2 | PPC, Intel, ARM | macOS, Windows, Linux

 

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