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Author Topic: Pi AND a bigger PC  (Read 1788 times)

Sheepdog

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Pi AND a bigger PC
« on: March 20, 2017, 10:58:11 am »
Dear Lazarus friends- Forgive re-opening something discussed many times? Here's why I did it... I'm hoping there are some experts out there which a foot in TWO camps. I long to leave Windows. Linux here I come. But I NEED my Lazarus! And I don't want too much hassle if I create something on a "big" computer, and want to use it in a Pi. (Creating things in the Pi, i.e. installing the full Lazarus devel pkg there, would not be out of the question, though. Good idea?)

So... which Linux? So far, so "is your Google button broken?"...

But! I want to use BOTH Pi and a bigger computer. Anyone already doing this? Which Linux for the bigger computer do you like? (I assume Rasbian in Pi... beginners should do the "ordinary"?)...

Thoughts? In general. A specific worry: Are "versions" a big issue? Do I have to use an older Lazarus, or an older distro of a particular Linux to get them to "play nicely"? Is this an ongoing woe for the Linux user?    Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 11:47:42 am by Sheepdog »

mig-31

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2017, 11:22:21 am »
I use Mageia distribution. It good for beginners.

There are a lot of distribution. The best way is to try out and find the most sutiable for you:
OpenSuse, Ubuntu and it clones (Linux Mint), Debian, Fedora...

Lazarus is usually in distribution repository (older version). For newest version download rpm or deb packeges (lazarus, fpc, fpc-src) from Lazarus IDE site and install it.

Read the wiki page about cross-compiling for ARM architecture. Usually you need to install cross-arm-binutils and use GTK+ widgetset for GUI. I think all Rasberry Pi distribution use LXDE desktop.

ldd <exe file name> command show you all dependencies.

Lazarus 1.6 - Linux 32/64 bit, win32

Handoko

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2017, 11:28:41 am »
@Sheepdog
What bigger computer did you mean? Server?

I don't play with Pi. I personally choose Ubuntu for my desktop. The reason I use Ubuntu is it has large user base. Which means it will be easier to find information if I ever run in to problem. Linux is great, no need to think about viruses and harddisk defragmentation. But I ever have problems several times especially with my NVidia graphics card. Luckily with some efforts to search the web, problems can be solved.

But some years ago, Ubuntu pushed its desktop manager "Unity". I didn't like it, it was buggy. So I switched to Ubuntu Mate. Basically Ubuntu Mate is a simplified version of Ubuntu. Some will said Mate is uglier, but I don't care. It is lightweight and easy to use.

There are a lot of distribution. The best way is to try out and find the most sutiable for you:
OpenSuse, Ubuntu and it clones (Linux Mint), Debian, Fedora...

I ever tried Fedora. It looks good, has more things to configure. For people who like customization, Fedora is a good choice. But I prefer simple thing, Fedora is not for me. If you don't have above average computer, you should avoid Fedora, it runs a bit slower.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 11:35:36 am by Handoko »

Sheepdog

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2017, 11:52:25 am »
By "bigger computer", I simply meant an "ordinary" tower or laptop. Something to use at my desk. (Yes, Pi people, I KNOW I can "use Pi at desk" (^_^)... keyboard, mouse, monitor, integrated hard drive.

Tried to install Lazarus to an Ubuntu machine... not in repository (that I could find... "Ubuntu Software" app?). Tried to install from .debs... blew the Ubunto out of the water. (No hardware damage, but required from scratch rebuild of OS installation)... and I am not "new" to computers. Wrote first program in 1968.

Handoko

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2017, 12:29:35 pm »
If you want to use Ubuntu, you should install Synaptic Package Manager. The default Ubuntu Software Manager is great, it keeps the history of your software installation/removal/upgrade. But I don't know why, it run slower and slower. Last time I used it, it need about 2 minutes to start up. Alternatively, I recommend you to use Synaptic.

To Install Lazarus, you should use the 3 deb files downloaded from Lazarus website (via SourceForge). After the installation, you should lock the version (using Synaptic) to prevent it automatically to updade (actually downgrade, I think).

I use Ubuntu Mate 16.10 + Lazarus 1.6.4 FPC 3.0.2. Everything seems to run correcly. But the installation process, didn't run smoothly.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 12:32:46 pm by Handoko »

SkyKhan

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2017, 12:50:08 pm »
You would want your desktop to be stable and reliable but if you want to have latest versions of everything too, dependency hell is there for Linux too, especially if you install software from 3rd party. If you mess up, you may end up all kind of conflicting packages and defunct desktop. So I will recommend finding a good distribution which supports your hardware well and you feel comfortable and stick with it. Dont install 3rd party software, use only its own repositories. Then use some kind of virtualization for your other bleeding edge developments. Because I know I managed to achieve broken dependencies on Linux and had to reinstall it before because I couldn't fix it with my limited knowledge.
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Handoko

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2017, 01:14:05 pm »
Yes, dependency issue is a problem on Linux. I often have software that can't be installed on Ubuntu because of dependency issues, sometimes it said it's holding a broken package.

I also ever messed up my Ubuntu. It's so bad, I had to reinstall the OS. After that I learned a good trick. If you're Ubuntu user (perhaps works on other Linux too), you should:

- Create a new partition and put your /home there
- Install your Linux not on the /home partition

The advantage of using the trick above is, you can reinstall your Linux even format the OS partition as long as you keep the /home folder separate. Your data and all software setting will be kept (except OS related software settings).

The first time I used that trick, I was surprised after I reinstalled my Linux, I opened my Opera browser all my previous settings are kept. Including the last page I opened.

Note: I work part time as a computer technician, I format and install computer a lot. I know for sure, on Windows you can can't save software settings on a separate partition. If you format the Windows partition, all of your program settings will be destroyed.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 01:19:26 pm by Handoko »

SkyKhan

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2017, 01:24:54 pm »
Well, I have a slow and not so reliable internet connection plus it has 50GB/month quota. So reinstalling is torture to me.
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Handoko

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2017, 01:49:05 pm »
Mine is not better than yours. My internet connection has 20 GB per month fair usage program, it will still run if over 20 GB but run veeeery slow.  :'(

Thaddy

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2017, 02:54:36 pm »
Does that still exist? 20 GB limits? Where? ( I know that is true, but not here, for years, Netherlands and Lithuania). Time to get into politics. Unacceptable and the infra-structure costs J.S.  Only my mobile G3/4 has limits but well above 200GB a month)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 02:58:06 pm by Thaddy »

Sheepdog

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2017, 03:55:37 pm »
SkyKhan- Thank you, helpful. Gave me consolation that several of my fears are valid.

JuhaManninen

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2017, 07:30:07 pm »
SkyKhan- Thank you, helpful. Gave me consolation that several of my fears are valid.
No, they are not valid if you choose your distro wisely.
Ubuntu at desktop is not very good now. They concentrate on other things, namely mobile and cloud.
I don't know why many people have an obsession to use and recommend it without trying other distros.
Mint is not good either any more, at least not for FPC / Lazarus users because their packages are both old and broken.

I use Manjaro now and can recommend it!
It has very recent versions of everything. For example I got FPC 3.0.2 semi-accidentally with other updates shortly after it was released.
I never have to install any new released SW from 3rd party because Manjaro has them all.
I feel frustration reading the agony of Ubuntu and Mint users because it could be avoided easily ... by using another distro.
Manjaro is a rolling distro, one would expect it to be unstable but it is not. It just keeps working. Never failed in ~2 years. Before it I had screwed my Xubuntu installation somehow and had to reinstall.

Of course there are many other good distros. For example I installed a promising SparkyLinux with KDE in a laptop and it works very well!
Like many others, it is based on Debian testing. There are also rolling distros based on Debian Sid (unstable).

Be smart. If a Linux distro does not work, please switch to another distro instead of banging your head again and again with it.

jacmoe

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2017, 07:54:08 pm »
I use Netrunner - highly recommended if you like KDE/Qt and/or want a distribution which is based on Debian, actively contributes back to the Debian project, does not have the bugs/issues that Ubuntu (or any derivatives) suffer, and that has a 'rolling release' mode which ensures that your system is shiny new. ;D

I also use fpcupdeluxe - because installing Lazarus/Free Pascal globally is not really a great idea on any *nix.
more signal - less noise

Phil

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2017, 08:19:04 pm »
I don't know why many people have an obsession to use and recommend it without trying other distros.

Perhaps some of the "obsession" (as you term it) with Ubuntu is that pros and ambitious hobbyists are probably already working with or plan to work with Linux servers in the cloud and there Ubuntu is quite common. So why not use the same Linux on your "desktop" system, if you're using Linux there, as you have on your server? There are lots more docs on Ubuntu than the others, eg,

https://macpgmr.github.io/MacXPlatform/PascalDynLibs_4.html

I updated to FPC 3.0.2 and Laz 1.6.4 over the weekend on an Ubuntu Virtual Box installation and it couldn't have been easier:

- From the command line, I first uninstalled existing fpc, fpc-src and lazarus packages using dpkg.

- I usually prefer to use the official FPC .rpm instead of the Laz .deb, so I used alien like this (and also to test that this still works):

      sudo apt-get install alien
      sudo alien -d --scripts fpc-3.0.2-1.x86_64.rpm
      sudo dpkg -i fpc_3.0.2-2_amd64.deb

Installed fine. Then...

  sudo dpkg -i fpc-src_3.0.2-170225_amd64.deb
  sudo dpkg -i lazarus-project_1.6.4-0_amd64.deb

Also installed fine, although with a warning that the fpc package didn't match or something (probably because of the "-2" that alien added to the package in creating the .deb).

Everything ran fine afterwards.

jacmoe

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Re: Pi AND a bigger PC
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2017, 08:26:29 pm »
That's flawed logic.
I wouldn't want to install a LTS Ubuntu server to be my desktop Linux..
Why would you?
That's two very different things.
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