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Author Topic: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.  (Read 10973 times)

Handoko

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2017, 02:53:52 pm »
Hello I'm back with my test result.

- UbuntuMate 16.10 64-bit fresh install + Lazarus 1.6.2 deb packages downloaded from Lazarus website (via SourceForge) works effortlessly on first attempt. It runs correctly with my simple test, both compiling and running.

- Right after UbuntuMate has been installed, the necessary packages weren't installed. But it will be automatically installed after Lazarus installed. I notice that while installing Lazarus, it tried to download something from the Internet.

- The neccesary packages are libx11-dev, libgtk2.0-dev, libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev, libcairo2-dev, libpango1.0-dev

I don't have other Debian flavors, so I can only test on UbuntuMate. Someone please do more testings on other Linuxes.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 02:56:10 pm by Handoko »

jacmoe

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2017, 03:03:16 pm »
On Debian stretch/testing it works "out of the box" using both 1.6.2 debs from Sourceforge, and the 1.6.2 debs from Debian testing.

One thing to look out for on Linux - especially non standard distributions - is that OS and CPU are not always auto-detected by Lazarus, and has to be set in in 'Configure "Build Lazarus"'
more signal - less noise

Nimral

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2017, 03:12:19 pm »
Normally, fpcupdeluxe checks the availability of these libs.
And reports/complains if missing.
But I have never tested with Netrunner (Debian).

Now installing Netrunner in VM. So fpcupdeluxe will do the right things also on this system.

If I can be of any help, please let me know, as I said, I can reproduce the issue at will. My Debian install used the latest stable release fom the Debian server, installed into a new VM using all the defaults, plus VMWare Tools except ThinPrinting.

Armin.
Lazarus 1.8 on Windows 10/7, VMWare Workstation 12

DonAlfredo

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2017, 03:24:45 pm »
I now have a nice and new install of Netrunner running.
And fpcupdeluxe reported the missing libs as I expected.

But this was reported in the big scrolling green-screen, without halting the install.

I have updated fpcupdeluxe (not yet public) to show this as an error in the green-screen, and in the summary-screen below.
So this will catch better attention !

However, fpcupdeluxe will not error out on these missing libs, because FPC alone installs well without these libs.
Need more changes in fpcupdeluxe (and time) to implement better intelligence to handle this.

Nimral

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2017, 12:57:10 pm »
However, fpcupdeluxe will not error out on these missing libs, because FPC alone installs well without these libs.
Need more changes in fpcupdeluxe (and time) to implement better intelligence to handle this.

Hi DonAlfredo,

great work, thanks very much. And I totally agree that writing error messages in red (+boldface +underlined +blinking +24pt font - whatever the terminal supports) helps:-)

What I wonder ... without the libs, Lazarus/FPC would install, that's technically correct, but I wasn't able to compile, run or debug a single line of code. Still assuming that my troubles were indeed caused by the missing libraries, why do you consider those libraries missing a minor issue, worth a warning, but not a fatal error message?

Armin.
Lazarus 1.8 on Windows 10/7, VMWare Workstation 12

DonAlfredo

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2017, 01:11:22 pm »
@Nimral

If you would have choosen a command line FPC program without Lazarus, you would have succeeded in compiling without these libs. I use this setup to compile (Linux) services (servers).

Other than that: remnants of the past. I will improve the behavior of fpcupdeluxe on this subject !!

mai

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2017, 10:49:06 am »

Then Lazarus. I was really shocked about the carelessness the project seems to hamper starters like me. First of all, try to find proper installation instructions for Linux. There are dozens: outdated, incomplete, dead links, contradictory, even the official wiki page at
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_release_version_for_Ubuntu
starts with a "this page is outdated" warning (dating back almost 2 years), and the installation attempts all didn't work, no matter which of the described methods I tried. Each try wasted considerable time and resources downloading a lot of stuff and installing it, some even without complaints, but after starting Lazarus I wasn't even able to open a single demo project without ignoring several seriously looking errors first, none (zero, nada, 0) projects would compile, not even the basic "application" with nothing but an empty form.



I am shocked too! I try to keep telling the dudes in here but all I get is stupid answers.

You are 100% correct !  There is gross carelessness with Lazarus ! Shocking !

Munair

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2017, 11:05:57 am »

Then Lazarus. I was really shocked about the carelessness the project seems to hamper starters like me. First of all, try to find proper installation instructions for Linux. There are dozens: outdated, incomplete, dead links, contradictory, even the official wiki page at
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_release_version_for_Ubuntu
starts with a "this page is outdated" warning (dating back almost 2 years), and the installation attempts all didn't work, no matter which of the described methods I tried. Each try wasted considerable time and resources downloading a lot of stuff and installing it, some even without complaints, but after starting Lazarus I wasn't even able to open a single demo project without ignoring several seriously looking errors first, none (zero, nada, 0) projects would compile, not even the basic "application" with nothing but an empty form.



I am shocked too! I try to keep telling the dudes in here but all I get is stupid answers.

You are 100% correct !  There is gross carelessness with Lazarus ! Shocking !

Then Lazarus. I was really shocked about the carelessness the project seems to hamper starters like me. First of all, try to find proper installation instructions for Linux. There are dozens: outdated, incomplete, dead links, contradictory, even the official wiki page at
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_release_version_for_Ubuntu
starts with a "this page is outdated" warning (dating back almost 2 years), and the installation attempts all didn't work, no matter which of the described methods I tried. Each try wasted considerable time and resources downloading a lot of stuff and installing it, some even without complaints, but after starting Lazarus I wasn't even able to open a single demo project without ignoring several seriously looking errors first, none (zero, nada, 0) projects would compile, not even the basic "application" with nothing but an empty form.



I am shocked too! I try to keep telling the dudes in here but all I get is stupid answers.

You are 100% correct !  There is gross carelessness with Lazarus ! Shocking !
Interesting, you keep repeating your complaints, but I never see you actually taking the advices given by those who do not have any problems or managed to solve them. How come there are so many here using Lazarus on Linux successfully? Listen to them.

My advice again (you haven't responded to it so far): Use Debian stable and get Lazarus from the official repo. Works out of the box. If you insist on having the latest of Linux and/or Lazarus, you may run into problems because it may not have been thoroughly tested. From testing and solving problems comes stability. That's Debian (not Ubuntu, Mint or other derivates promising full-fledged out of the box experience), so pick your choice and stop whining.
Lazarus 1.6.2, testing 1.8, FPC 3.0.0; Debian 9 KDE 5.8.6 x64; Windows 7 x64, PC-DOS2000

Handoko

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2017, 11:30:57 am »
Started Lazarus, compiled empty app, compiled "Hello" and compiled Lazarus - no problem whatsoever. Debugger tested OK too.

Nimral had problem installing Lazarus but because he tried what we suggested to him, now he can use Lazarus. That post above was his saying. It seems that mai isn't interested to solve the problem, s/he tried to find all the problems related with Lazarus s/he can found and showed them to us.

Munair

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2017, 11:33:00 am »
Started Lazarus, compiled empty app, compiled "Hello" and compiled Lazarus - no problem whatsoever. Debugger tested OK too.

Nimral had problem installing Lazarus but because he tried what we suggested to him, now he can use Lazarus. That post above was his saying. It seems that mai isn't interested to solve the problem, s/he tried to find all the problems related with Lazarus s/he can found and showed them to us.
It seems that way.
Lazarus 1.6.2, testing 1.8, FPC 3.0.0; Debian 9 KDE 5.8.6 x64; Windows 7 x64, PC-DOS2000

mai

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #55 on: October 17, 2017, 11:41:39 am »
using debian stable will not give a better "make help" output. it will be as useless as on a "neon nightly".

Munair

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #56 on: October 17, 2017, 11:50:59 am »
using debian stable will not give a better "make help" output. it will be as useless as on a "neon nightly".
My advice: don't use Linux. You're not up to it.
Lazarus 1.6.2, testing 1.8, FPC 3.0.0; Debian 9 KDE 5.8.6 x64; Windows 7 x64, PC-DOS2000

mai

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2017, 11:52:22 am »
no, you're not up to delivering proper software.

marcov

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2017, 11:54:49 am »
no, you're not up to delivering proper software.

We don't deliver software on Ubuntu. Ubuntu does. They are a OS+software distribution, integrating packages is their raison d'etre.

Anyway, I seriously wonder what you are trying to achieve with these rants.

mai

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Re: Rant: Lazarus on Linux: messed up. Completely.
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2017, 11:57:06 am »
no, you're not up to delivering proper software.
Anyway, I seriously wonder what you are trying to achieve with these rants.

Well I wrote a legit critique of Laz, and I stand by it.

 

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