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Author Topic: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition  (Read 66418 times)

Graeme

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2016, 12:24:13 am »
Have anyone try it on Linux? Maybe using Wine?

Did you remember to run "winecfg" and set the WINE reported Windows Version (you can do that globally or per application). I believe it defaults to WinXP. I just had a look on my FreeBSD system, I can select Windows versions from Windows 2.0 all the way up to Win 10 in winecfg.
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wp

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2016, 02:02:13 pm »
Now they add a BOM to the source files which makes them unreadable by Delphi 7. I have a full Pro license of Delphi 7. Testing a few old projects with Berlin Starter destroys these projects...

And what a loss in usability (compared to Lazarus) because a CTRL-Click  does not open the source of an identifier. And SHIFT+CTRL+UP/DOWN does not go from interface to implemention.

It's good that we have Lazarus.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 02:09:22 pm by wp »

Thaddy

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2016, 02:16:49 pm »
Now they add a BOM to the source files which makes them unreadable by Delphi 7. I have a full Pro license of Delphi 7. Testing a few old projects with Berlin Starter destroys these projects...
I seem to be lucky I just downloaded it and not installed it yet. Otoh I have most important code under version control. I have multiple Delphi licenses for multiple versions and I need them all.
At least XE2 doesn't have that issue.
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rvk

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2016, 02:48:28 pm »
Now they add a BOM to the source files which makes them unreadable by Delphi 7.
I created a small project with a button and caption "test € Ç ü á" (extended ascii) and also assigned it in unit1.pas (runtime). I saved the project and looked at the unit1.pas and unit1.dfm and could not find any BOM-signature in the file.

At what point do you think the BOM gets added?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 03:00:30 pm by rvk »

wp

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2016, 03:18:29 pm »
I think I have to apologize: The BOM was only in one of the files that I edited with Berlin, and it was EF BB BF, i.e. UTF8, - from Delphi I'd have expected a UTF-16 BOM. Maybe I once had opened that file with Lazarus. But Lazarus does not add BOMs either. Strange...

JanRoza

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2016, 11:40:07 pm »
Will installing this free version mess up my Delphi 2007 settings (if installed in a different location)?
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wp

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2016, 12:27:42 am »
I have D7 and XE2, both on the same system (Win 10), and installed Berlin Starter Edition. After the issue with the BOM has dissolved into nothing I don't see any major conflicts of the Berlin Edition with the already present installations. Of course, loading and editing an old - say - D7 project by the new version will probably add new properties to the form, and most likely you will not be able to load the same form back into D7 - always make a backup copy of existing projects before loading them into newer versions. And I should also note that as usual the last installation grabs ownership the the pas extension, i.e. a pas file double-clicked in the explorer is opened by the Berlin Edition - this is usually not desired since it is more restricted compared to the already existing pro versions. I can't remember if there was an option during installtion to keep the old file associations.

JanRoza

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #52 on: August 26, 2016, 01:30:49 pm »
Thanks wp. Then i will give this new version a try this weekend. It's more out of curiosity than necessity as i start all my new projects in Lazarus as standard.
OS: Windows 10 (64 bit) / Linux Mint (64 bit)
       Lazarus 3.2 FPC 3.2.2
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wp

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2016, 01:50:55 pm »
The same with me. I stopped working with Delphi, I was just curious to see what has changed.

JD

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2016, 03:49:41 pm »
Thanks wp. Then i will give this new version a try this weekend. It's more out of curiosity than necessity as i start all my new projects in Lazarus as standard.

Same here.

JD
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Akira1364

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2016, 05:12:48 am »
The Delphi IDE became eternally dependent on the .NET 2.0 (specifically) framework as of version 8 (also known as "Galileo"), simply because the development team made the incredibly stupid decision to make extensive internal use of of the remarkably short-lived "Delphi .NET". (I think they actually bought into the ridiculous rumors circulating back then that Microsoft was going to "discontinue" the Win32 API. I mean, really? There's no way, ever.) That is 90% of the reason for the Delphi IDEs current sluggishness. Delphi .NET is everywhere in the IDE codebase, and that is unlikely to ever change.

Thaddy

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2016, 06:59:10 am »
The Delphi IDE became eternally dependent on the .NET 2.0 (specifically) framework as of version 8 (also known as "Galileo"), simply because the development team made the incredibly stupid decision to make extensive internal use of of the remarkably short-lived "Delphi .NET". (I think they actually bought into the ridiculous rumors circulating back then that Microsoft was going to "discontinue" the Win32 API. I mean, really? There's no way, ever.) That is 90% of the reason for the Delphi IDEs current sluggishness. Delphi .NET is everywhere in the IDE codebase, and that is unlikely to ever change.

That is not entrirely accurate. .Net code was only used for refactoring and in the more expensive versions for modelling. Both could be disabled at least upto XE and absolutetly no dependency on .Net remained.
Also the cause of the sluggishness was memory pressure caused by the .net sub-system rather than compute power. If you ran D2006/2007 on a single core pentium!V machine with 8GB ram it was fast and still is. I use D2006 and D2007 extensively. In D2006 I have the ,net subsystem disabled and use D2007 IDE for refactoring (on a 16BG machine).
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Akira1364

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2016, 07:12:18 am »
That might be the case, but it certainly seems like they just "bit the bullet" after a while and stopped any attempts to move away from it. I mean, if you compare the RTL sources for each version starting with Delphi 2009 or so, there are objectively more $IF DEFINED CLR directives with each version. Also, many things I've seen written by various Embarcadero/Codegear/e.t.c employees seem to indicate that Delphi .NET was/is used for more than just refactoring...
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 07:14:07 am by Akira1364 »

Thaddy

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2016, 07:36:52 am »
Well, you are mistaken. As I explained that whole .net subsuystem can be disabled. I also take your remark about more and more .net defines with a pinch of salt.
That only comes into play where OS provided code is only- officially- available in .net flavors and the rtl contains code to interface with it. That is very rare. 99% of these defines have been there since the beginning. And yes, it was just for refactoring - including codeinsight - and modelling and a few less important goodies like non-industry-standard code repositories. The latter has been remedied in favor of SVN and Git integration.

Use Andreas Hausladen's ide fix pack to easily disable .net and speed up your delphi ide.
Specialize a type, not a var.

JD

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Re: Free Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition
« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2016, 09:42:50 am »
Surprise, surprise I was able to install the full JEDI JVCL suite into it.
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