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Author Topic: The future of Free Pascal  (Read 46818 times)

Deepaak

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #225 on: March 20, 2017, 04:18:30 pm »
@Handoko: me too...
That's exactly the same with C++: I installed the 2010-Pack and several 2013-Packs and an old ChessPRG requires the 2008-Package. What ?! And of course that one won't install on Windows 7. Once I had the 2008 Package installed, but I can't remember how...

I don't agree at all.. I have installed 2008 packages many times ad not a single time any problem is faced. Dot-net have limitations. But it is all choice of the developer. No development tool/language is bad. Every one comes with its own advantages/disadvantages.


@Handoko Windows 7 have built in .net 2.0 package installed aside with .net 3.5. No separate package is required for .net 2.0.
Ooops Holiday season is offline now.

marcov

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #226 on: March 20, 2017, 04:36:51 pm »
Windows 10 has standard .NET 4.0, and 3.5 must be manually installed

Handoko

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #227 on: March 20, 2017, 04:38:09 pm »
@Handoko Windows 7 have built in .net 2.0 package installed aside with .net 3.5. No separate package is required for .net 2.0.

That's strange. I found no .net 2 for 64-bit to download. I tried to install it several times, I just said .net 2 can't be install on 64-bit Windows. The problem had solved, by downgrading (I mean reinstall) the Windows to 32-bit. Before I downgraded it, I also tried to install .net 4.5, that software won't install it ask .net 2.

I'm not familiar with .net things, but this experience makes me thing MS .net is not backward compatible.

Note:
Actually that software can be installed without .net 2. But when starting it show error saying it require .net version 2.

Graeme

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #228 on: March 20, 2017, 04:49:58 pm »
The future of Free Pascal?  As an open source project it will live forever. For real-world work there isn’t any future - use Java (the #1 language in the world) instead.

[and I run and hide]

 ;)
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fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
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marcov

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #229 on: March 20, 2017, 04:52:19 pm »
The future of Free Pascal?  As an open source project it will live forever. For real-world work there isn’t any future - use Java (the #1 language in the world) instead.

Doing it yourself is so 2000s. Hire IBM global services to do it for you!
 

Handoko

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #230 on: March 20, 2017, 05:20:57 pm »
When installing Java runtime I get message "3 billion devices run Java". Really? Compare to Java, Free Pascal is too microscopic.  :P

Thaddy

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #231 on: March 20, 2017, 05:38:45 pm »
The problem is that most programmers do not want to see their mistakes and start programming without any clue about what they are trying to do.
Object Pascal tries to prevent you from making those mistakes.
Code: C  [Select]
  1. {int (follows a macro explaining basically nothing)   i; // index declared somewhere else...
  2. ...several thousands  of  lines further, while i is supposed to be still valid.....but one of the team forgot....
  3. ..... i:= 100;{// oh, I forgot a variable, lets call it Z (not z)...\n
  4. }}
  5.  
People make mistakes. At least both Kernigan and Richie admitted that (both loath that they invented half a language) . Soustrup has - while he is still alive - a huge problem keeping the hornet nests in a somewhat regulated order. And Pascal is still readable and prevents you from making silly assumptions.

.. and: why can't I have a zero in my array of char?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 05:48:25 pm by Thaddy »

BeniBela

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #232 on: March 20, 2017, 06:09:16 pm »
The problem is that most programmers do not want to see their mistakes and start programming without any clue about what they are trying to do.
Object Pascal tries to prevent you from making those mistakes.
Code: C  [Select]
  1. {int (follows a macro explaining basically nothing)   i; // index declared somewhere else...
  2. ...several thousands  of  lines further, while i is supposed to be still valid.....but one of the team forgot....
  3. ..... i:= 100;{// oh, I forgot a variable, lets call it Z (not z)...\n
  4. }}
  5.  
People make mistakes. At least both Kernigan and Richie admitted that (both loath that they invented half a language) . Soustrup has - while he is still alive - a huge problem keeping the hornet nests in a somewhat regulated order. And Pascal is still readable and prevents you from making silly assumptions.

Actually it is the other way around.

Pascal:

Code: [Select]
var i: integer;
begin
  for i := .. to ... do begin
  end;
  // long code
  do something with another variable, but accidentally type variable i
end;

C:

Code: [Select]
{
  for (int i=..;i<=..;i++) {
  }
  // long code
  do something with another variable, but accidentally type variable i
}


Guess which language protects you from the mistake of using the wrong variable?

avra

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #233 on: March 20, 2017, 06:20:38 pm »
However, compared to it Lazarus still lacks some vital features like multiple source editor window support
That exists for a long time: http://wiki.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since#Multi_Source_Editor

Quote
Pretty much the only show stopper is the scaling - give me a way to work comfortably on a hundred file project in Lazarus, and Delphi 7 would go down the drain.
This will also help: http://wiki.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since#Project_Groups
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Handoko

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #234 on: March 20, 2017, 06:32:38 pm »
Thanks avra. Many useful IDE tricks can be found from the link you provided.

JuhaManninen

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #235 on: March 20, 2017, 06:46:21 pm »
Pretty much the only show stopper is the scaling - give me a way to work comfortably on a hundred file project in Lazarus, and Delphi 7 would go down the drain.
This will also help: http://wiki.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since#Project_Groups
A project group helps only with many related projects. I understood the hundred files belong to one project.
Artlav, what exactly does not work with hundred files?
I think the IDE scales well. For example the Lazarus project itself has rather many source files but I can work with them smoothly using the IDE.

RAW

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #236 on: March 20, 2017, 08:21:28 pm »
Quote
...use Java (the #1 language in the world)
Maybe that's true, but the fact that many people use JAVA or buy a certain book or do whatever doesn't mean that this has something to do with quality. More often it's the other way around...

And of course if you all like to install again and again a new C++Pack or a new DotNet-Version or JAVA-Runtime then have fun with it... Quality is something else and somewhere else!
I really don't know why they don't create at least some kind of backward compatibility. Maybe they are not smart enough...  or C++/DotNet is not smart enough ... whatever ... :P
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Artlav

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #237 on: March 20, 2017, 08:39:27 pm »
That exists for a long time: http://wiki.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since#Multi_Source_Editor
Except it does not work like that - either you have to use non-docked mode, which is completely unusable due to a horrific amount of disconnected clutter on the screen, or you use docked mode and have to have all the editor windows on screen all the time.

Thanks for the link, however - this is quite a useful page, and i haven't even imagined looking for some of these features...

Artlav, what exactly does not work with hundred files?
Switching between them in a quick fashion.
In Delphi 7 you could group them into separate windows, and switch between the windows with either a hotkey or a list in the menu.
In Lazarus, i haven't yet found a way to either get several editor tab sets or windows without producing an explosion of clutter, or in some other way to quickly go to an arbitrary file in a project.

The closest think is right clicking on the tabs and selecting the file from the "other tabs" list, which is still somewhat unpleasant.

JuhaManninen

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #238 on: March 20, 2017, 10:11:38 pm »
In Lazarus, i haven't yet found a way to either get several editor tab sets or windows without producing an explosion of clutter, or in some other way to quickly go to an arbitrary file in a project.
I often keep 2 editor windows open, side by side, both almost from screen top to bottom. More than 2 would be clutter, yes, but so it would be with Delphi 7.
This is also why I prefer the undocked layout with separate windows. I get high editor windows and can keep helper windows like Messages and Call Stack partly behind them. The helper windows get focus only when I really need them. This layout utilizes best the available space.

In Lazarus the editor bookmarks are global for all files, not local for each file like in Delphi.
Thus jumping in code with bookmarks is handy. 10 marks is enough because it is quite the max to remember (for me). Often I don't pay attention which file gets a bookmark. I find an important place in code by jumping in it or by debugging. It can be in .pas file or .inc file, who cares. The bookmark will take me there later.
So, for me it works very well.

avra

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #239 on: March 20, 2017, 10:19:03 pm »
That exists for a long time: http://wiki.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since#Multi_Source_Editor
Except it does not work like that - either you have to use non-docked mode...
Like in D7? Sorry, couldn't resist  :D

Quote
Thanks for the link, however - this is quite a useful page, and i haven't even imagined looking for some of these features...
You're welcome.
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