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Author Topic: The future of Free Pascal  (Read 19328 times)

heejit

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2016, 12:51:00 pm »

Chronos

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2016, 03:23:20 pm »
...

But if Object pascal as language is not good choice then what is? All these languages like C, Java, C#, PHP, Python which are commercially used are basically usable only for solving "narrow" set of problems. You can't write simply native GUI application in PHP without using special wrapper libraries written for example in C. C doesn't support object-oriented programming so it is used mainly for low level stuff. Java runs inside virtual machine so it is not so easy to build fast native application for various platform without installing JRE. C# is Microsoft world even there is CLR and kind of java virtual machine. There are many various languages but I am not aware of any generally usable language kind of "one language rules them all". And this is not just about syntax but also availability of libraries, documentations, platform and cpu architecture support, active development, and all other aspects which could give powerful tool to our hands.

So is future of free pascal bright? Probably not bright just something in middle between white and black. It lives with its own slow life.
Is future of delphi/object pascal bright? I hope yes as this language has all required properties of powerful language. But still we don't have powerful open source tools available yet. Delphi is just commercial and Windows only IDE. And Lazarus/FPC is different story.

Is there really any other new general programming language which isn't just cool trendy so its popularity will decline after short time?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_programming_languages

airpas

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2016, 03:56:33 pm »
fpc/lazarus has some beautiful features : less trouble , easy to install , easy syntax ,  fast compilation , ......., i think those features could attract some people whom already suffering from setup a working development environment .
maybe c++ users ;)

Leledumbo

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2016, 06:36:00 pm »
But if Object pascal as language is not good choice then what is? All these languages like C, Java, C#, PHP, Python which are commercially used are basically usable only for solving "narrow" set of problems. You can't write simply native GUI application in PHP without using special wrapper libraries written for example in C. C doesn't support object-oriented programming so it is used mainly for low level stuff. Java runs inside virtual machine so it is not so easy to build fast native application for various platform without installing JRE. C# is Microsoft world even there is CLR and kind of java virtual machine. There are many various languages but I am not aware of any generally usable language kind of "one language rules them all". And this is not just about syntax but also availability of libraries, documentations, platform and cpu architecture support, active development, and all other aspects which could give powerful tool to our hands.
The good choice is what you're good at, trust me. No matter how great and attractive a language is, if you can't code or not comfortable coding in it, you won't be productive. I'm stuck coding in Go after my co-worker forces the team to build our new tool in it, he managed to convince the CTO (looks like he's envy because I've managed to put Pascal into our environment :p) but my code has progressed real slow so far. We've been coding this for two weeks and still looks very long to finish, while my previous Pascal project was done in a week.

Thaddy

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2016, 07:21:27 pm »
If somebody misses the point:

Most real world IT is done in open standards. Compilers , even hardware and most serious software.
Everything else is either bullshit or borrowed.

Thing is: everybody misses that point here.

It is not about the language, it is on a very much higher level.

Given that a language is a way of expression.
Specialize a type, not a var.

sasa

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2016, 09:05:29 pm »
Many people missing simple thing: why there is so many languages and not just one? That is in the same time self explanatory.

OP want to make some pet game with FPC/Lazarus and later maybe sell? Sure it can, however I would ask myself something from following (random though):

Is it 2D/3D? What platforms need to support? Is it complex? How fast it can be? What I need to know to make it? Did I need to use any third-party lib/package and is it exists for free? Is it someone made already similar and what he used? How many time I have to spent in order to complete it? Is it possible to make it easier? What people usually use to make similar games? What game industry use to make similar? Except spending my own time, would I need to pay for such development suit or not? If I pay or use free suit/lib could I rely on long term support for future projects?

Etc... That will lead to answer what is optimal.

There is nothing here about FPC/Lazarus, but about efficiency. I would rather not spend the whole life only with one project...

sasa

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2016, 10:11:09 am »
Well, the situation is even worst than I actually though, based on development rate...

According to:
http://www.freepascal.org/aboutus.var (no page refresh date)
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Developer_pages ( last modified 22 January 2016, at 22:28)

I have manage to count 8 members for FPC. And 17 active members for Lazarus, among only 7 older members I can remember from early 2006.

In bug trackers I can see few other people with developer status not listed here... but all in all less than 30 members for such a huge project is indeed devastated fact...

On this forum I can see more than 100 people with 400+ and more than 30 over 1000 messages. Is there a qualified future members for development team among them? Actually, I doubt anyone is ready or have a time to read 1000s to millions lines of code in order to become active developer..

Let assume other members of the forum are just students have Pascal classes only as introduction in OOP, enthusiasts and skilled Delphi programmers have no time to involve deeply in FPC/Lazarus development, focused  on their own projects.

I can see also some people donate their own work here (as pointed in this thread)...

Lazarus need quite a lot of work to fix large amount of bugs as well as FPC. Even the most of work for both is done until 2013, any change (bug fixing, improvement or new feature) may lead from minor to serious regression - actually happens all the time.

At end, no matter anyone being optimistic future is not good at all. Such huge projects should have at least 100-300 active developers wiling to spend few hours a week only.

Being simply realistic based on facts, not underestimating nor overestimating any effort of 20-25 years of development nor in the future, current situation is not quite good and reflecting that to the near future things does not look promising....

That is all.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 10:29:01 am by sasa »

Deepaak

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2016, 11:05:08 am »
The good choice is what you're good at, trust me. No matter how great and attractive a language is, if you can't code or not comfortable coding in it, you won't be productive.

I agree with you. It is a very real fact, One cannot work comfortably with strangers.

@sasa
Who knows someday these few 100 people will make a revolution in the world of programming or after few years nobody will even remember it. No one knows the real future.

Holiday season is online now. :-)

marcov

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2016, 11:30:15 am »
Sasa: it is totally unclear what you base your assumptions on, both the size and activity of the Lazarus/FPC project and what it should be (and what you are comparing it with).

SymbolicFrank

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2016, 12:18:45 pm »
I think the future is very bright for Lazarus / Free Pascal. Not because of the language, but because there is a library / component for just about anything.

You can rate development platforms in may ways, but to me the most important one is the time it takes to create a functional application.

Ok, this depends on the type of application as well. There are probably better choices if you want to make webapps, but that's about it.

For most other applications you will outperform everyone else.


If you are mostly interested in the quantity of possible job offers, Java is your best bet. And it's a pretty nice language: there are a lot of components and libraries. But there are also a lot of things that are quite hard to do.


As for things like automatic memory management: garbage collectors are nice for light applications, but a pain for anything serious.


Further, Java is from Oracle, that company that bought out Sun to make money off those "free" products. And things like C# are from Microsoft, which hasn't had a stable platform for the last five years or so. And less users every year.

I have more trust in the stability and availability of Lazarus / Free Pascal.

tr_escape

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2016, 02:23:40 pm »
Last year and nowdays there are a lot of discuss about to changing the Freepascal/Ide.
Actually it is good thing because of each new idea gives new opportunity...

There was a discuss in the linkedin's freepascal group:

https://www.linkedin.com/groups/4558772

in:

https://www.linkedin.com/groups/4558772/4558772-5956065258324901892




Leledumbo

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2016, 02:48:37 pm »
Last year and nowdays there are a lot of discuss about to changing the Freepascal/Ide.
Actually it is good thing because of each new idea gives new opportunity...
But useless because no one really wants to implement and maintain, just a bunch of talk... We need more libraries instead of language features, except when it's really something that even a library hard or impossible to do. Libraries what actually speeds up development instead of language features. We also need a hell lot of documentation, pearls and diamonds of FCL is covered by dust because only a small portion is documented.

lazjump

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2016, 02:58:20 pm »
As for things like automatic memory management: garbage collectors are nice for light applications, but a pain for anything serious.

Really? A pain for anything serious? Wow
I thought Delphi was expensive until I learned the price of ExtJS

sfeinst

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2016, 03:36:17 pm »
But useless because no one really wants to implement and maintain, just a bunch of talk... We need more libraries instead of language features, except when it's really something that even a library hard or impossible to do. Libraries what actually speeds up development instead of language features. We also need a hell lot of documentation, pearls and diamonds of FCL is covered by dust because only a small portion is documented.

Couldn't agree more.  Libraries are why I choose a language.  If you have to code everything yourself, you will stop coding that language (unless you enjoy that type of work).

marcov

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Re: The future of Free Pascal
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2016, 03:46:29 pm »
Last year and nowdays there are a lot of discuss about to changing the Freepascal/Ide.

(personally I would not invest in the current IDE other than bugfixing. Or transform it wholly to the delphi dialect and class concept and -streaming, but that means revising FV too)
 

 

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