* * *

Author Topic: Windows 10 applications  (Read 15455 times)

BobS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2017, 01:53:24 am »
Probably you've found this by now, but I didn't know it was a thing until I read this thread (well ok I don't use Win 10 though I'm going to stick it on a VM for testing real soon now).  Now that's a somewhat old article but I've seen other references so I guess it's still allowed (for now):
https://www.howtogeek.com/219651/windows-10-allows-you-to-sideload-universal-apps-just-like-android-does/
and this link is in the above article in case you just want to see what they have to say about it in MSDN
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/get-started/enable-your-device-for-development

Edit:
And if Windows 10 S starts showing up in non-school places well then the Store would be it, no more side-loading.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 02:56:31 am by BobS »

Handoko

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1411
  • My goal: build my own game engine using Lazarus
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2017, 04:29:42 am »
Thanks for sharing those articles. But what is "sideload" as mentioned in the articles?

BobS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2017, 05:14:37 am »
Just the term used for getting apps made for the Windows Store (WUA) from somewhere else than the Windows store.  It would make developing things easier for people like me who only are going to have a handful of people using an Ap and don't want to have to go through the hassle of becoming a MS developer and submitting an App to Microsoft for approval (e.g. I'm currently writing an App that will only work for people who have a computer connected to an LG OLED TV--pretty small audience ;) ).

molly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1719
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2017, 05:14:52 am »
@Handoko:
Running applications which do not originate from the official store, e.g. like you run your compiled code that you just wrote with lazarus  :o

Or as google answered the question: "windows what is sideloading":
Quote
If you're unfamiliar with the term "sideload", in Windows 10 it means the process of installing apps on your computer that hasn't gone through the certification process to appear in the Store and to run on a Windows device. The operating system by default blocks you from sideloading apps.

So, there exist an entity and mechanism that decides what or what executables you are allowed to run on your windows 10 computer. Welcome to the modern age of world domination, "resistanze is futile"  :D

Handoko

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1411
  • My goal: build my own game engine using Lazarus
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2017, 05:37:02 am »
It would make developing things easier for people like me who only are going to have a handful of people using an Ap and don't want to have to go through the hassle of becoming a MS developer and submitting an App to Microsoft for approval.

So, that is good news. Please understand, I'm a Linux user. Last Windows I used was Win7, I ever saw Win 8/10 but never really tried it.

Thanks Molly for the explanation, but:
So, there exist an entity and mechanism that decides what or what executables you are allowed to run on your windows 10 computer.

Does it mean Win10 has less or never has virus/malware issues? You know, those programs won't go to the certification process, so basically they can't run on Win10 (unless sideloading is enabled).

BobS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2017, 05:48:49 am »
"resistanze is futile"
I hope not, I really used to be a big MS fan, but then Windows 10 happened.  And now they want us to go to a walled garden.  I guess that goes hand in hand with losing Net neutrality and other scary things.  But MS doesn't have the greatest track record (e.g. Windows RT though that was also hardware limited) with some of this and I can only hope they will stop this mad march towards limiting our options in the name of "safety" that is mostly illusionary.  I hope people don't fall for Windows 10 S --resist--fight the Borg, it worked for Voyager ;) .

But if 10 S does become the new wave of the future, FPC/Lazarus is going to have join the club or slowly be left out in the cold (and winter is coming) I really don't want to have to code in c# or whatever (especially in visual studio, I yearn for the good old days when it wasn't full of bandwidth robbing telemetry...almost makes me nostalgic for FORTRAN and COBOL or maybe I'll dig out some TP 2 and DOS 6 and withdraw from this brave new world :) ).

BobS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2017, 05:52:23 am »
"Does it mean Win10 has less or never has virus/malware issues? "

No remember Win 10 can still run win32/64 just fine.  It's only the new Windows 10 S (s for schools) that forces the use of the store.  As too "if it's safer" maybe a little but I doubt for long--ways around will be found.  Geeze look at the zero day thing they just found in Windows Defender that let an UNOPENED email take over your computer, yikes!

EDIT:
BTW I see a lot of complaints from people claiming to have gotten spy ware from the Windows Store--maybe just hyperbole, but the apps apparently have a tendency to access things like cameras they have no business accessing so not a whole lot different than what can happen outside the store.  Personally I've only ever gotten a couple of things from it so I can't say for sure.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 05:57:11 am by BobS »

molly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1719
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2017, 05:59:41 am »
Does it mean Win10 has less or never has virus/malware issues? You know, those programs won't go to the certification process, so basically they can't run on Win10 (unless sideloading is enabled).
Unfortunately not. In theory perhaps, not in practise.

That is exactly what 'those entities' want to make you believe. In that 'such entity' is to be trusted that they take care of malware/virus before it even hits the store/user.

In practise that isn't happening at all. Recent (but also older) news with regards to Google's appstore, the IStore and even MS app store showed that most of the applications phone home, put doors wide-open or even gather personal information.

Thereby, with software like Edge you don't even have to. Executing arbitrary code on the user's system is just 2 clicks away.

Are you perhaps familiar with this ? Isn't that nice ? :)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 06:17:45 am by molly »

BobS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2017, 06:12:12 am »
No, I missed that one, doesn't surprise me though.  I do remember various things like securboot UEFI etc. were supposed to make us oh so secure.  Reminds me of the video disk industry every time they release a new standard like blue-ray they say it's uncrackable then of course it gets cracked.  The unbreakable 4K Blu-ray encryption appears to have now been broken too.

Walled gardens may protect some users who don't know better than to download dubious software from dubious sites, but even my 84 year old mother knows not to do that.  Plus all the other ways to get infected, from what you linked to compromised USB sticks (IBM sold some of those recently) to phishing.  No it's all about money since Microsoft gets a cut from every piece of software sold in the store, why wouldn't they want to force everyone to use it?

molly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1719
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2017, 06:14:47 am »
"resistanze is futile"
I hope not,
You do not have to take my word for it, of course :)

These kind of moves are happening for a longer period of time now, and although i don't know the long term strategies of companies like MS, these strategies are also dictated by larger companies and governments that want to have a secure and safe (working) environment.

Imho, that is simply an illusion when still depending on and utilizing existing resources.

I have worked with MS and MS products for a longer period of time in the past, and what i see in practice is that "smart" companies move away from that. On the long run that could proof them wrong, but as things are right now, i don't blame them either. I'm moving away from it as well also looking around for (even) better alternatives.

Handoko

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1411
  • My goal: build my own game engine using Lazarus
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2017, 06:22:20 am »
@BobS:

I just checked the information of Win 10 S. Too much limitations, better to use Linux.

I don't think their walled garden strategy will not survive too long. AFAIK, :-X they're losing customers. They gave Win10 for free for qualified Win7 users. My clients (I am a freelance computer technician) asked me to reinstall their office's computers back to Win7 because of the Win10 free update caused lots of troubles.

 >:( I hate UEFI, it makes my works harder.

@molly:

I'm glad I haven't upgraded my cpu to I5/I7. I'm using Intel Core2 Quad cpu, ever though to upgrade to more powerful I5 or I7 processor. This is a quote from wiki:

Quote
Currently, AMT is available in desktops, servers, ultrabooks, tablets, and laptops with Intel Core vPro processor family, including Intel Core i3, i5, i7, and Intel Xeon processor E3-1200 product family.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 09:17:17 am by Handoko »

taazz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2017, 08:53:05 am »
@BobS:

I just checked the information of Win 10 S. Too much limitations, better to use Linux.

I don't think their walled garden strategy will not survive too long. AFAIK, :-X they're losing customers.
Actually it is to early to say anything seeing that the desktop market is almost dead and the new frontier is the portable market ee phones, notebooks and laptops. The next big thing in the industry is the universal applicatons ee an application that runs on phones netbooks, notebooks etc regardless of the underline processor and hardware if that is .NET/mono or java or html/javascript is yet to be determined but c/C++ and other compilers will see their pie reducing rapidly in the near future.
Good judgement is the result of experience … Experience is the result of bad judgement.

OS : Windows 7 64 bit
Laz: Lazarus 1.4.4 FPC 2.6.4 i386-win32-win32/win64

kupferstecher

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2017, 11:08:17 am »
[...] seeing that the desktop market is almost dead
I don't agree here. There is no office job without a desktop/notebook PC. And only this use case demands millions of devises even in small countries. Sure the mobile market is gathering large shares, but couldn't rule out the desktop market, also not on the long run.

marcov

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5574
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2017, 11:23:06 am »
Edit:
And if Windows 10 S starts showing up in non-school places well then the Store would be it, no more side-loading.

I think people that buy Windows S are then not really interested in custom software anyway. It is to counter the ChromeBook concept, but then with actualy storage and (some) offline capabilities
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 11:24:58 am by marcov »

taazz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2017, 11:35:12 am »
[...] seeing that the desktop market is almost dead
I don't agree here. There is no office job without a desktop/notebook PC. And only this use case demands millions of devises even in small countries. Sure the mobile market is gathering large shares, but couldn't rule out the desktop market, also not on the long run.
The desktop pcs are being replaced with laptops in most businesses mostly for the added "safety" feature of not loosing your work when the power goes out(decentralized power management). When the universal applications market get some momentum laptops will start to be replaced with tablets seeing that they are cheaper than laptops and have the same "safety" features. All in all the desktop computers will be confined to jobs with high requirements (in speed / quality etc) or modularity and in the server room as long as the "modularity" is cheaper than the complete replacement. as I said it is early for any conclusive results I'm just spinning around, it could change everything if intel comes up with a highly efficient high performance and cheap SOC (for example) that supports existing applications, although I do not see the industry dropping the arm SOC any time soon.
Good judgement is the result of experience … Experience is the result of bad judgement.

OS : Windows 7 64 bit
Laz: Lazarus 1.4.4 FPC 2.6.4 i386-win32-win32/win64

 

Recent

Get Lazarus at SourceForge.net. Fast, secure and Free Open Source software downloads Open Hub project report for Lazarus