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Author Topic: Windows 10 applications  (Read 18261 times)

marcov

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2015, 12:51:11 pm »
That's what I'm afraid of too. That when win10 apps don't really take off it dies away again after a short burst of interest (but nothing done)
Windows 10 is really just an upgrade to Windows 7 it seems to me. After i installed it, i had my desktop 90% same as it's always been before.

I doublechecked if I had the right DVD in the player because the setup stage was extremely similar to Win10.

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My old'ish version of gdb.exe didn't work though, Lazarus app started up without debugger. Technologically the system should be far above Win7 though, if nothing else the task manager is way better.

Try to disable smartscreen and the antivirus. They don't like debuggers and linkers (.EXE reading and writing apps)


marcov

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2015, 01:28:56 pm »
I talk about this subject that now with Lazarus I can make almost everything I want but it seems to me if everything going like this I will lose ability to make new genre apps for the biggest platform and its not good.

That's  exactly the problem. The windows appstore currently is the SMALLEST platform.  We DO support that biggest platform (win32/win64)

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We like or not Microsoft try to make desktop,tablet and mobile like each other and make ways to convert way we want work with them.

That's cool, when do you think you will have the first code running?

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History showed it will win and its just matter of time and one or two fail to do that and if great tool like FPC cant make what future need it changes from a "Make what ever you want".

(I'm not sure the people that invested heavily in Vista sidebar apps, win8 apps and the various Mobile products would agree.  MS is rock solid for some lines, win32/64, office, sqlserver and XBox, most other experiments failed miserably. The name microsoft is not automatically a marker for success.  Note that XBox is about the only newer product in that lineup. The rest are already established products since the nineties)

Anyway, I'm happy you are enthusiastic about it, and you think it is worth your time. It will be interesting to see what you come up with.

Don't worry about being a beginner, just get going. We all had to start sometime. Nobody is born a compiler devel, you just try and persist.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 01:33:24 pm by marcov »

aradeonas

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2015, 01:59:51 pm »
marcov I like the way you always talking ;)

When I talked about platform I meant Windows not Win32 but you are right but its not reduce worrying about new devices and new ways people work with computer and we are make software that they use.

About beginning as compiler devel,yes you are right we aren't born this way but we are different .just take a look at the way we are talk,you are more realistic and understand computer and its behave much better than me but someone like me can just make things with tools you made.
My purpose from making this topic is brought more attention than now until someone that CAN decide to begin ;)

Thank you as always.

minesadorada

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2015, 02:23:10 pm »
Darn it!

After upgrading from 64-bit Win 7 to 64-bit Win 10 both my 32-bit Lazarus-built DB-based apps stopped working (msAccess and SQLite).  The launch icons are helpfully marked with an exclamation point by Win 10, but the 'troubleshoot compatibility issues' applet crashes.

Lazarus runs fine, so I should be able to pinpont the problem.
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marcov

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2015, 03:28:08 pm »
Windows

There is no "windows" application platform. Only win32/64 and winRT (and maybe one could count the .NET 1.0,1.1 and 2-3.5 and 4.0+ as distinct platforms, I'm not deep enough in .NET for details knowledge about that)
 

aradeonas

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2015, 03:29:46 pm »
Windows

There is no "windows" application platform. Only win32/64 and winRT (and maybe one could count the .NET 1.0,1.1 and 2-3.5 and 4.0+ as distinct platforms, I'm not deep enough in .NET for details knowledge about that)
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I meant Windows not Win32 but you are right
And I said you are right but thanks for teaching me ;)

aradeonas

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2015, 09:44:02 am »
So if I want to have controls like for example Windows 10 setting what can I do?What is the best way?Make new component and draw them my self or is there a way to let Windows draw them like other controls?Or should make xml theme?
I want to use it as a default so for example windows color changed my controls colors changed too.

marcov

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2015, 07:50:37 pm »
I guess so. I think like most newer GUIs they are essentially the css model, iow the controls are more rendered as a page i a browser.

It seems a devel license is needed for win8/10 apps:
- http://superuser.com/questions/524621/do-you-really-need-a-license-to-develop-windows-8-metro-apps
- https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/library/windows/apps/hh868184.aspx

Running apps is only allowed in a number of cases
- for a licensed developer on a limited amount of machines
- via the store.
- using an enterprise license that allows to have an own "store". The name suggests it is for big companies only, but I haven't seen exact pricing. But probably if you don't have a very Microsoft centric IT infrastructure that is probably not an option anyway.

aradeonas

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2015, 08:00:10 pm »
I dont care about the license,beside that Microsoft licensing is bad.
I just want to draw my controls like new style so I should draw them my self like what Lainz do in BGRAControls or get help from OS for better compatibility when OS theme changes,for example color.

lainz

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2015, 02:05:14 pm »
I dont care about the license,beside that Microsoft licensing is bad.
I just want to draw my controls like new style so I should draw them my self like what Lainz do in BGRAControls or get help from OS for better compatibility when OS theme changes,for example color.

You can create custom controls that looks the same as XAML controls that are used for Universal Windows 10 Applications (yes, these are xml).

I can't get the emphasis color choosen by the user, there is no API or I can't find it. XAML read the emphasis color from their own way...

aradeonas

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2015, 02:06:42 pm »
If you said so,I will go with Dear BGRABitmap ;)

mercury

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2015, 05:36:45 am »
Most of us.. well, according to the release downloads of Lazarus "most of us" are using Windows. In second place Linux and Mac downloads are about the same. Of course this does not reflect how many user compiled versions are out there.

Linux users doesn't need download Lazarus, they just install from software repository.  :)

ZipXap

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2016, 10:45:48 pm »
I was reading this thread and noticed it seems like there is a lot of misinformation so decided I would spend a couple minutes explaining Windows 10 as best I can.  I’m just now getting back into development and trying to decide what is the best technology to start learning...

Windows 10 is not just a new Windows 7.  Microsoft has essentially created a platform (The Universal Windows Platform, or UWP to be exact) that allows the development community to create applications that run across all windows-based devices, including phones, tablets, PCs, and Xbox.  This is called a Windows Universal Application.  Windows Universal Applications can query the functionality of the device and target the features of each device (or disable them on devices that don’t have a specific functionality).  Windows Universal Applications can be developed in VB.Net, C#, C++, and probably others like HTML5/JavaScript.

There is a fundamental shift in how software is distributed starting with Windows 8, and revised slightly in Windows 10.  With Win32/64 and traditional .NET applications, in most cases the user downloads an MSI and runs an install that puts the application in program files and adds a start menu item, and perhaps a desktop shortcut, and modifies the registry to allow for uninstall. Windows Universal Applications are installed in one of two ways.  The first way is through the Windows Store.  With this method the developer must have a Microsoft Developer Account.  It is submitted to the Windows Store, approved by Microsoft, and is available for sale (or free if the developer chooses).  The other way that a Windows Universal Application can be deployed is by what is called Side-Loading the application.  There is a setting in Windows that allows the user to install Windows Universal Applications outside the Windows Store from arbitrary sources.

Google "Guide to Universal Windows Platform (UWP) apps" for a Microsoft introduction...

So as you can see, you can’t just make it look like a Windows 10 application.  It would have to utilize all of the new APIs that are used for making Windows Universal Applications.  I think that there must be something similar in the Android SDK that allows developers to query for things like touch vs mouse, GPS, etc…   These things will first need to integrate into the LCL somehow.  I don’t know the first thing about LCL, so perhaps it already has this ability?

Anyhow, hope this helps…

Kurt

taazz

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2016, 10:55:05 pm »
I was reading this thread and noticed it seems like there is a lot of misinformation so decided I would spend a couple minutes explaining Windows 10 as best I can.  I’m just now getting back into development and trying to decide what is the best technology to start learning...

Windows 10 is not just a new Windows 7.  Microsoft has essentially created a platform (The Universal Windows Platform, or UWP to be exact) that allows the development community to create applications that run across all windows-based devices, including phones, tablets, PCs, and Xbox.  This is called a Windows Universal Application.  Windows Universal Applications can query the functionality of the device and target the features of each device (or disable them on devices that don’t have a specific functionality).  Windows Universal Applications can be developed in VB.Net, C#, C++, and probably others like HTML5/JavaScript.

There is a fundamental shift in how software is distributed starting with Windows 8, and revised slightly in Windows 10.  With Win32/64 and traditional .NET applications, in most cases the user downloads an MSI and runs an install that puts the application in program files and adds a start menu item, and perhaps a desktop shortcut, and modifies the registry to allow for uninstall. Windows Universal Applications are installed in one of two ways.  The first way is through the Windows Store.  With this method the developer must have a Microsoft Developer Account.  It is submitted to the Windows Store, approved by Microsoft, and is available for sale (or free if the developer chooses).  The other way that a Windows Universal Application can be deployed is by what is called Side-Loading the application.  There is a setting in Windows that allows the user to install Windows Universal Applications outside the Windows Store from arbitrary sources.

Google "Guide to Universal Windows Platform (UWP) apps" for a Microsoft introduction...

So as you can see, you can’t just make it look like a Windows 10 application.  It would have to utilize all of the new APIs that are used for making Windows Universal Applications.  I think that there must be something similar in the Android SDK that allows developers to query for things like touch vs mouse, GPS, etc…   These things will first need to integrate into the LCL somehow.  I don’t know the first thing about LCL, so perhaps it already has this ability?

Anyhow, hope this helps…

Kurt
bla bla bla bla windows store lock in because apple is not smarter than microsoft bla bla bla. Conclusion, windows 8 and later is good for tablets and windows phones keep it out of my desktop. I do tend to have 5 application open side by side when I'm working and I do not appreciate the full screen I'm forced in on windows 10. So Microsoft either go back to a desktop OS or crawl somewhere else to die. APPLE wannabe.
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marcov

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2016, 11:32:05 pm »
There is a fundamental shift in how software is distributed starting with Windows 8, and revised slightly in Windows 10.  With Win32/64 and traditional .NET applications, in most cases the user downloads an MSI and runs an install that puts the application in program files and adds a start menu item, and perhaps a desktop shortcut, and modifies the registry to allow for uninstall

No shift, in windows 10 it works that way too. Anyway nothing you say is new, it is just the same using the forced optimistic tone of Microsoft. We also heard this utopian tone about Vista sidebar apps :-)

BUT, one bit is new:

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The other way that a Windows Universal Application can be deployed is by what is called Side-Loading the application.  There is a setting in Windows that allows the user to install Windows Universal Applications outside the Windows Store from arbitrary sources.

the above bit. I thought that sideloading was only possible using an enterprise sideloading license (which is way more expensive than the windows account, but maybe that it is more relaxed for desktop OSes since I last read up about it)

That said, I mostly read docs from win8 and prerelease win10 docs, so it could be outdated. Do you have concrete URL for this sideloading from arbitrary sources ?

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So as you can see, you can’t just make it look like a Windows 10 application.  It would have to utilize all of the new APIs that are used for making Windows Universal Applications.  I think that there must be something similar in the Android SDK that allows developers to query for things like touch vs mouse, GPS, etc…   These things will first need to integrate into the LCL somehow.  I don’t know the first thing about LCL, so perhaps it already has this ability?

Yes, but that would be writing a winrt backend (for the platform), and then its specific GUI and event APIs.

I think the bigger problem is a browser-like rendering model that might be painful with LCL. LCL forms are not a freeflowing documents. But who knows?

« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 09:57:20 am by marcov »

 

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