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Author Topic: Windows 10 applications  (Read 16339 times)

aradeonas

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Windows 10 applications
« on: July 29, 2015, 11:33:04 pm »
Now that the Windows 10 released I should ask what can we do for making new apps with new Windows standard and style?
Yes I know most of us are Linux user or make pereviouse desktop apps but changes even in style coming and it's good to know what options we have!
Also consider Tablets apps with continum ability.

lainz

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2015, 01:25:11 am »
Well.. Windows 10 application, define it.

There are "Windows 10 Store" applications that can be done only with Visual Studio. C# is actually easy to learn if you know FPC, is easier.

The win32 and win64 should be the same, I already created a bug report about the manifest.xml settings to include compatibility with Windows 10, but everything else should work.

Most of us.. well, according to the release downloads of Lazarus "most of us" are using Windows. In second place Linux and Mac downloads are about the same. Of course this does not reflect how many user compiled versions are out there.

aradeonas

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2015, 07:28:46 am »
Mostly I meant applications with Windows 10 style,for example check boxes that you can see in Edge.Working with VS is not a problem but I prefer remain with Lazarus as I can.
About users I admit I said it badly,I  thoutght most of the team memebr and users that are old in working with Lazarus are Linux user otherwise I am mostly a Windows user.

lainz

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2015, 11:39:45 am »
"C# or Visual Basic with XAML, JavaScript with HTML, or C++ with DirectX and/or Extensible Application Markup Language (XAML)"
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/dn726767.aspx

Well, lazarus does not support xaml and not support html (html at least now, it can be added of course).

This is somewhat old, but is discussed if can make xaml apps without visual studio: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1963773/wpf-without-visual-studio

I know, FPC and Lazarus: familiariy with it. JavaScript is closer and C# too. But If you can use Pascal will be better.

If it can be possible to make an HTML editor and a free Pascal compiling into .js there will be a choice? (I know there is one pascal compiler to .js, but is not free, or is just free a part) I don't know even if these apps are compiled in any way, or packaged, or if even is some place when it's described!

Personally if a compiler of fpc to js is made, object oriented will work, somewhat like TypeScript.

Well, here are the technical details, for those who knows:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/br211377.aspx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime

Sorry if there is something wrong in my post, I'm not a Windows 10 expert, just learning as you.

marcov

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2015, 11:43:31 am »
Now that the Windows 10 released I should ask what can we do for making new apps with new Windows standard and style?
Yes I know most of us are Linux user or make pereviouse desktop apps but changes even in style coming and it's good to know what options we have!
Also consider Tablets apps with continum ability.

This already came up when these apps were introduced with Win8. Nothing has changed, except that these apps are now also windowed, please research the old threads.

Anyway, the windows runtime would first need a FPC target before you can even think about GUI.

lainz

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2015, 12:04:52 pm »
Well, markov just say you what's going on here, but if you are somewhat lost like I was, this is really usefull, forget my old comment:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28586642/windows-gui-wpf-or-winrt-2015

marcov

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2015, 12:10:57 pm »
Well, markov just say you what's going on here, but if you are somewhat lost like I was, this is really usefull, forget my old comment:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28586642/windows-gui-wpf-or-winrt-2015

Keep WPF and WinRT apart. That thread is about leveraging WPF on winrt, which is not so important for us since we are not .NET/WPF (which is the "newer" .NET GUI technology, the "older" one is WinForms) based, but GDI based.

WinRT is not .NET but C++ based target (but using interfaces afaik, a bit like DirectX is styled, api wise) we first would need a FPC port to it. It is not "win32/64".


lainz

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2015, 12:15:54 pm »
Keep WPF and WinRT apart. That thread is about leveraging WPF on winrt, which is not so important for us since we are not .NET/WPF (which is the "newer" .NET GUI technology, the "older" one is WinForms) based, but GDI based.

Alright, but at least describes each technology.

WinRT is not .NET but C++ based target (but using interfaces afaik, a bit like DirectX is styled, api wise) we first would need a FPC port to it. It is not "win32/64".

And in other words is possible?

marcov

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2015, 12:21:08 pm »
WinRT is not .NET but C++ based target (but using interfaces afaik, a bit like DirectX is styled, api wise) we first would need a FPC port to it. It is not "win32/64".

And in other words is possible?

In theory yes, but as said it is a whole new target. The devil is in the details (think stuff like exception handling etc).  And some of the target specific stuff will need to be repeated for other architectures (read: ARM)

Also I don't know much about the practicalities, specially related to codesigning:

- will Windows will run unsigned or self signed winRT binaries?
- how to deploy? Can you execute win RT binaries outside the store as an user?
- Probably you can do the above as part of a developer program , but what does that cost? Is it doable for interested FPC users, or do they require Eur 100 an year or so. That would limit the audience tremendously.

Interested are encouraged to search the forum  and the fpc-devel and lazarus lists. IIRC Sven did some research about this and answered some of these.

Note that this is the first interest in WinRT in say 1.5 years........ That says almost enough in itselfl.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 12:23:26 pm by marcov »

lainz

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2015, 12:25:37 pm »
Note that this is the first interest in WinRT in say 1.5 years........ That says almost enough in itselfl.

Indeed. Maybe because "they" are doing a lot of marketing effort with that white small icon on the notifications part of the taskbar in all PC's in the world? Windows 8 was too bad?

aradeonas

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2015, 12:46:08 pm »
Is there any interest in team members?We can help but at least one of them core member or some one who know FPC well begin it so we can follow and help,really I want help but some ones like me are far from making a new target.
Lazarus and FPC do well until now but if Windows want go to that path and FPC not sure its a vary bad point.

marcov

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2015, 01:21:11 pm »
Indeed. Maybe because "they" are doing a lot of marketing effort with that white small icon on the notifications part of the taskbar in all PC's in the world? Windows 8 was too bad?

That's what I'm afraid of too. That when win10 apps don't really take off it dies away again after a short burst of interest (but nothing done)

marcov

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2015, 01:22:56 pm »
Is there any interest in team members?We can help but at least one of them core member or some one who know FPC well begin it so we can follow and help,really I want help but some ones like me are far from making a new target.

My guess is "Interest yes, time no", otherwise it would already have started. I guess all devels interested in Windows (Me, Sven, Sergei, Florian, maybe Pierre) are interested to some degree, and will answer questions and help out.

The heavy lifting probably has to come externally though. Starting with a lot research on the target, and examining existing tools for it, both open and closed, which anybody with Windows and a browser can do.

User137

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2015, 11:19:11 am »
That's what I'm afraid of too. That when win10 apps don't really take off it dies away again after a short burst of interest (but nothing done)
Windows 10 is really just an upgrade to Windows 7 it seems to me. After i installed it, i had my desktop 90% same as it's always been before. My old'ish version of gdb.exe didn't work though, Lazarus app started up without debugger. Technologically the system should be far above Win7 though, if nothing else the task manager is way better.

aradeonas

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Re: Windows 10 applications
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2015, 11:40:49 am »
I talk about this subject that now with Lazarus I can make almost everything I want but it seems to me if everything going like this I will lose ability to make new genre apps for the biggest platform and its not good.
We like or not Microsoft try to make desktop,tablet and mobile like each other and make ways to convert way we want work with them.
History showed it will win and its just matter of time and one or two fail to do that and if great tool like FPC cant make what future need it changes from a "Make what ever you want".

Yes I know I just talk and didnt do anything for it but its first need to planed from makers and maintainer and then someone like me go after them and try to help if he can.
I just said what I think its important for my lovely tool ;)

 

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