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Author Topic: A dead computer  (Read 15896 times)

Leledumbo

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Re: A dead computer
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2015, 01:09:39 pm »
The problem is that you will have many small boxes, hubs and converters, instead of one big box.
I think the mini PC market is still forming and mutating. I am sure there will be low-end fanless machines with more USB ports and internal storage. Otherwise the technology is similar to cell-phones, you only need connections and storage instead of a display.
I can see that in a not so far future, we'll see what other companies will do.

Signal

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Re: A dead computer
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2015, 02:38:46 pm »
I have a Shuttle DS81. Somewhat more expensive and slightly larger than the mini all in one boxes, but lots of connectivity, industrial quality construction, user's choice of cpu, memory, and storage, with excellent cooling. There are two very quiet ball bearing fans and a custom heat pipe arrangement that is very effective. I use a low power i5 that only runs core temps of about 35c under light loads, with the fans at their lowest speed setting (~1350 rpm).

http://www.shuttle.eu/fileadmin/resources/download/docs/spec/barebones/DS81_e.pdf
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 02:42:18 pm by Signal »

JuhaManninen

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Re: A dead computer
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2015, 06:34:03 pm »
There are interesting machines popping up right now:
  http://www.asrock.com/microsite/Beebox/
Fortunately I am not in a hurry. I will wait and see what the fanless Intel N3000 model costs and then maybe buy one. It is pretty much the dream machine I described. I am drooling already...
Mostly Lazarus trunk and FPC 3.2 on Manjaro Linux 64-bit.

marcov

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Re: A dead computer
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2015, 08:14:12 pm »
Are your machines on permanently? Or why are you so obsessed with power usage?

Note because even heavy computers have regulated fans and sleep levels nowadays, (maximum) power usage doesn't equal noise anymore.

I have a i7-3770 and I barely could hear the machine when it only used internal GPU. But it does do a FPC build in under a minute under Linux (1:10 when "hot" under windows)

taazz

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Re: A dead computer
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2015, 10:29:53 pm »
wow an all new wave on the rise. Very interesting times very interesting. I think that power consumption should drop and I'm a bit ticked off by the last decades trend of faster more power hungry machines mainly driven by the GPUs (yes my computer for one reason or the other is almost always on). I think that the only think an office pc should have is a moderate sound card, a good lan card, a huge amount of memory, a moderate graphics card and multiple cores if that could feet in the back of a screen 20 ~ 22 inch will make things a lot simpler. The space gained would be a help and if the noise is kept to a minimum that would make for the perfect atmosphere. AS for the home computer well I prefer huge bulk desktop cases if any one would like to come in I could just ask him to move that tower a bit and have a sit ;).
Good judgement is the result of experience … Experience is the result of bad judgement.

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Laz: Lazarus 1.4.4 FPC 2.6.4 i386-win32-win32/win64

JuhaManninen

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Re: A dead computer
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2015, 12:33:16 am »
Are your machines on permanently? Or why are you so obsessed with power usage?
Note because even heavy computers have regulated fans and sleep levels nowadays, (maximum) power usage doesn't equal noise anymore.

My computer has been on too much and the AMD machine was quite a power hog, true.
Still, that is only part of the reason for my "obsession". My geeky mind tries to find the most optimized way of doing things. Already now the technology is ready for personal computing without propellers. High-end tablets and cell phones are a proof of that.

If a CPU is so power hungry that it needs a fan, it leads to an avalance effect with the surrounding electronics and mechanics. A big multi-hundred watt power supply, multiple propellers and the mechanics to support all that. As a result we still have the big ugly boxes.
People try to justify them because a user can modify their internals freely. It is ok but it only proves how immature the whole concept of computng is. It is like the pre-T-Ford time with automobils.
Remember that the first electric computer was built in 1940's, only about 70 years ago. Compared to agriculture or metal refinement or even car manufacturing it is a very young area.
The early computers with vacuum tubes and ferrite coils look now funny in museums. The fact is that the current PC boxes with their buzzing propellers will look equally funny in museums in the future.
What more, the replacing technology is already here. The low-power mobile CPUs and GPUs can already do all the "normal" tasks.

The development up to this point was understandable. Both computing power and amount of memory were the limiting factors during many decades. The goal was to increase them by any means, including multible propellers and big power supplies.
The goal was reached. There is enough computing power and memory now.

Recently the goal of chip and device manufacturers has been to reduce power consumption, make the gadgets smaller and get rid of propellers.
That goal was pretty much reached, too. Tablets, cell phones and other gadgets are very powerfull now.

In fact 2 opposite motivations are now struggling inside me. One part tells me to recycle and buy an old big computer because they are cheap and they could end up to garbage otherwise.
Another part tells me to move forward and leave the outdated technology behind.
Now I think I will do the latter because the change in technology is so big and profound.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 10:22:53 am by JuhaManninen »
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JuhaManninen

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Re: A dead computer
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2015, 12:38:05 am »
AS for the home computer well I prefer huge bulk desktop cases if any one would like to come in I could just ask him to move that tower a bit and have a sit ;).

Ok, that is a good reason to have a tower computer, I cannot argue with that. :)
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taazz

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Re: A dead computer
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2015, 02:41:05 am »
AS for the home computer well I prefer huge bulk desktop cases if any one would like to come in I could just ask him to move that tower a bit and have a sit ;) .

Ok, that is a good reason to have a tower computer, I cannot argue with that. :)
unless of course they sit on the tower instead :P
Good judgement is the result of experience … Experience is the result of bad judgement.

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Laz: Lazarus 1.4.4 FPC 2.6.4 i386-win32-win32/win64

JuhaManninen

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A reborn computer (was: A dead computer)
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2015, 06:20:36 pm »
Yesterday I got a new ASRock Beebox straight from Germany carried by FedEx.
There it is up and running :
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/slc6llufczs919q/BeeBox.jpg?dl=0

It is truly small and quiet. No moving parts. The performance is very modern, slightly faster than my old 3-core AMD computer.
Sure the high-end Intel CPUs are much faster but this is like the high-end CPUs were some years ago. Fast enough for anything I do with it.
It is not a gaming machine really but at least Sauerbraten runs smoothly, although the bots killed me quickly but that is not BeeBox's fault.

I installed Manjaro "KDE-Next" Linux from USB-stick without any problems. Now everything is configured.
Manjaro is good as many people have noted. New versions of everything and snappy operation. KDE 5 Plasma is very usable already, too.

Connected to BeeBox was a "Lazarus USB-stick" made by Seppo Suutarla. Thanks Seppo!
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/wsbrlxd3pdxypp7/LazarusStick.jpg?dl=0
He says it is made with lazer light. I don't know how that is possible.

This Beebox has Intel Celeron N3000 CPU.
  http://ark.intel.com/products/87259/Intel-Celeron-Processor-N3000-2M-Cache-up-to-2_08-GHz
Its nominal clock frequency is 1.04 GHz but it has Turbo-Boost (like the Knight Rider's Kit had at 1980's).
I checked the Turbo-Boost operation with a "i7z_64bit" program.
It works beautifully, frequency changes between 0.5 GHz and 2.08 GHz gradually depending on load. The nominal frequency has no relevance, it is never used.

The gadget has fast dual-port RAM (4 GB) and according to specs can show so called "4K resolution" streaming video smoothly.
It even has a remote control but I don't know how to use it yet.
Top of the box itself works as a heat-sink. It is warm but not hot. The CPU can run with constant max frequency, thermal design is good.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 06:30:06 pm by JuhaManninen »
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JuhaManninen

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Re: A reborn computer
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2015, 08:57:37 pm »
I tested the speed of BeeBox with "make clean bigide" command.
Pity I did not write down any speed values of the 3-core AMD machine. My feeling however is that BeeBox is faster.
To me this machine feels fast. I don't have the old "Celeron-feeling" with it, although I know the current high-end CPUs are _much_ faster.
So, how fast are they for this job? Anybody?

OS: Manjaro Linux, 64-bit

$ fpc
Free Pascal Compiler version 3.0.0rc1 [2015/08/07] for x86_64
...

___ The test : ___

$  time make clean bigide
 ... lots of action ...
real    4m7.914s
user    3m41.880s
sys     0m17.987s

The same command 2. time. The files may be in cache now but it makes only a small difference because SSD is fast.

real    4m4.110s
user    3m41.780s
sys     0m17.860s
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Bart

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Re: A dead computer
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2015, 10:06:37 pm »
This means little if we don't know what's in your fpc.cfg?

Bart

JuhaManninen

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Re: A dead computer
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2015, 10:40:58 pm »
This means little if we don't know what's in your fpc.cfg?

I didn't think of that. It is the default after using FPC installer (no distro package). No extra flags then.
But yes, there are better benchmarks than this.
Mostly Lazarus trunk and FPC 3.2 on Manjaro Linux 64-bit.

 

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